VintFalken.com

Bye Bye Banks

January 10, 2008 1:50 am

Ah well. Bound to happen, but kinda funny, as LL still stated ‘we won’t go through the hassle of trying to regulate such things‘ in August 2007.

Second Life Banking Ban: Bart to blame!

Don’t worry, folks.
They’ll find other scams for you to fall for in no time! :mrgreen:

Ow, and 1k L$ for whomever reproduces this after the stock exchange crash photograph in Second Life within this and a week’s time.

10 Responses to “Bye Bye Banks”

Alex Burgess wrote a comment on January 10, 2008
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Well, we should have guessed. Usually on major policy issues there is a public statement from LL a few months ahead of time, followed by implementation of precisely that which they claimed they were not doing. It’s kind of like the old Soviet-style kremlinology.

I’ll add my $L1 to the pot for anyone who recreates that photo. The one at NWN didn’t do the issue justice, and Wrath’s post at AWNM was shamefully devoid of art. Heck, I’d even help stage it.

Wrath wrote a comment on January 10, 2008
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Wow, Alex, so generous - you upped the pot to L$1,001? LOL Fine, I’ll see your L$1 and raise you L$1. There, L$1,003 to the first person to recreate that photo. (Vint, can I borrow L$2?)

Guess we could always incorporate posing for that picture when we do the Morrissey Flash Mob night, should we recruit enough Morrisey alts…

Vint Falken wrote a comment on January 10, 2008
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Actually, Alex, don’t you think they should integrate at least either the hammer or the sickle in the Second Life hand logo then? ;) And as far as I know, they did not mind girls taking their shirts of and showing nipples in the ‘let’s worship labour’ statues and paintings. :D

Sure, Wrath, you may borrow 3L$. We need to talk about the interest rates, though. I was thinking something in the line of: one of Wrath’s clothing items goes/1L$/day? :D

Wrath wrote a comment on January 10, 2008
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Ha! Vint, you know very well that before you charge me interest, I’m going to need to see proof of an applicable government registration statement or financial institution charter!

Otherwise, maybe Dalien can mail me L$3 to pay you back…
:-P

Vint Falken wrote a comment on January 11, 2008
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Wrath, that is only when I pretend to be a bank. Which I do not. We call this ‘lending out 3 L$’ and it’s a game. Not even a chance game, as you now perfectly well how many clothing items you’ll loose/day that you don’t pay me back. Maybe I should make a business plan out of this and call it ’strip-fincancing’ or something. You could try the second strategy though. =)

Ow, as for the outfit, I have two _awesome_ helpers in finding me what I had in mind for you. As some stuff might be non-transfer, it will come to you maybe on strange manners. (From them, from the seller, gift certificate, whatever…)

Yet, there is a catch, it won’t come to you unless you promise you let me take at least one snapshot, with you wearing my full outfit. Anvie-honor on this one? ;)

Wrath wrote a comment on January 11, 2008
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Actually, Vint, I bet you could make a business out of “strip-financing”, LOL. It would certainly create a lot more ‘interest’ than a bank ever could. *g*

Wow, two _awesome_ helpers trying to find the right clothes? Should I be scared?? And you know I can’t promise a snapshot until I see the outfit first! Allow me to have at least some sense of dignity? ;-)

Vint wrote a comment on January 11, 2008
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Wussy! I know that one of them is an avie you trust (for 98.75% and not with your wife, probably). The other one is known for his good taste. So you should be safe… really… trust me! It’s an hawt outfit, with even a little american touch to it. But it is no fun working on getting it together, if you probably throw it into inventory to never let it out again. :(

Veronique Kaminski wrote a comment on January 11, 2008
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At first sight, this new policy makes sense.. only allowing to play bank, those companies or persons that have a RL license or permit for offering financial services.

And thus making sure they are trustworthy and knowing what they are doing..

But there are some considerations imho:

LL claims they dont want to act as regulators for this kind of banking business, so they hope to solve this problem by passing it on to RL regulators..

But: how are they going to do this? How are they going to control the credentials of all the possibel applicants? Taking into account that candidates can come from all over the world. Do they know, or are they in contact with all FED’s, Banking and Securitys control committees or the likes world wide? Or will they only accept US licences? The same way they followed the US laws when they decided the ban on casinos?

And… even controling all those licenses… isnt that a bit like acting as a regulator too? Taking decisions who enters and who not?

I guess that obtaining a banking license will cost huges amounts of money, even letting out of consideration the minimal amount of capital one needs to keep as guaranty.

Who, not possessing a licence yet, is prepared to to this, just in order to enter and get some percentage in an economic system where only a couple of million € or US$ do turn around?

So, what is left then? RL banks? RL banks from the US? Are they really going to bother to enter SL for other then marketing purposes? Will they really be prepared to set up a whole system, parallel to the online system they allready have, payed for with hard RL cash, that only will deal with transactions ranging from a couple of cents to a couple of real dollars worth? In a world where security and stability is still a pending issue? Or, are they contacted by a RL bank?

Besides, will their license allow them to deal with a currency, the Linden$, which isnt a currency at all, just a mere game token?

Because, and that is some kind of paradox here, LL states very clear that the Linden dollar has no value. (One of the reasons btw why on inworld transactions no VAT has to be charged). So, if it doesnt have a real value, why is there a problem when some people want to play bank with this Monopoly money? I dont remember that I ever asked my goverment permission when I wanted to be the bank when playing this popular boardgame..

Or…. does the L$ have a value? Is it a real currency? What then about LL themselves? Do THEY have the permision to put all those IOY on the market? Because, if every L$ can be changed back into US$, at a since the last months +/- fixed rate, what they did in fact by putting everytime more L$ in the system by giving away stipends, was… creating new US$ too!! On who’s authority?

Ok, one can argue that this isn’t the case anymore. That most L$ are created when people buy them in exchange for real dollars or euros on the LindeX. And that they are destroyed again when people cash out. But..

Now, lets stay with this cash out idea for a moment. Because cash out is possible, I guess most have the idea that for every Linden$ they own, there is a real US$ equivalent stashed away somewhere in the Big Linden Vault. Waiting for the day they want to cash out too and go living on a RL tropical island somewhere.

I am pretty sure this isnt the case. Most of the RL money that enters when Linden$ are bought, is burned. Spent on salaries, servers, paying back loans etc..

So the day there will be a big cash out run to the Linden exchange, the same will happen as what is now being held against the banks: Not everybody will receive his money back.

In what way then are the LIndens different from the banks they try to ban now? Are they finance experts?

Because they own second life? And all the others are just players in the world they created and govern?

Well then, please let them play!

So, My 5 cents on this? *

SL pretends to be different from other online worlds because, amongst other things, they have an economic system. But in order to really function properly, an economy needs banks, stockexchanges and similar financial institutions. Even if they handle mickey mouse money.

For the vast majority of its users, SL is a kind of game. A game in which they can run some kind of experiments.. do stuff they are unable to in real life.

So, if they want to play bankowner, why not just let them be? Even if they dont have the proper education or capacities for it.

And what if the bank is a scam? Well, if you, unlike me, do believe in the possibility of guarantied intrest rates of 100+% per year, these institutions give you the possibility to experiment, and prove your right.. or learn a valuable lesson for only a couple of real $, even if you put several 1000’s L$ at risk. A lesson that might cost you most of your belongings if you would conduct the same experiment in RL…

Yes, many players put some money in SL, but not in order to get big returns. It is mostly used to buy clothes and stuff, paying rent, tip strippers.. etc.. and maybe while not yet spent, they put it in a bank in order to get a little extra. But the final goal remains: play with it and leave it inworld. If the bank gets banckrupt.. pitty.. but on the other hand, when one decides to leave SL after a time, you cant take with you all the stuff you bought neither.

And the couple of hundreds or thousands that do make a lot of money in SL? The ones that might lose a lot.
Well if they are that good in business they can build a profitable empire… I guess they are smart enough too, and will not risk all their earnings by putting them in a bank that promises payout rates that make casinos blush..

* 5 cents? Yeah!, lets get rid of those stupid 1 and 2 cent coins in europe..please.. :-)

ps: no, dont worry… I am NOT going to write these kind of long testimonials each time…

Vint Falken wrote a comment on January 11, 2008
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Now, lets stay with this cash out idea for a moment. Because cash out is possible, I guess most have the idea that for every Linden$ they own, there is a real US$ equivalent stashed away somewhere in the Big Linden Vault. Waiting for the day they want to cash out too and go living on a RL tropical island somewhere.

I am pretty sure this isnt the case. Most of the RL money that enters when Linden$ are bought, is burned. Spent on salaries, servers, paying back loans etc..

So the day there will be a big cash out run to the Linden exchange, the same will happen as what is now being held against the banks: Not everybody will receive his money back.

But this goes for any coin. How much of our ‘paper’ money is backed up by gold? Maybe 00.05% or smth?

For all those not totally grasping this, a very interesting 40 minutes clear explanation of the whole money creating process, is money as debt by Paug Grignon.

PS. Conclusion: probably a golden watch is enough to back up for all the L$ going around? ;)

Vint Falken wrote a comment on January 11, 2008
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Ah, found it again:

Total worth of gold ever mined by man: US$3 trillion in April 2006. (So that’s way way way higher than the actual gold reserves.)
The entire global market capitalization for all stock markets was US$43.6 trillion in March 2006.

Care to comment?