What do I love most about Second Life? Residents sharing stuff. Expertise, property, virtual goods, textures, knowledge, scripts, experience, … all these things are very valuable items for us, residents and yet often you get the most interesting of those for free. Upon kind request, or just because the maker wishes to contribute to the Grid and Second Life’s growth and future.

So jiddy I was when Dalien told me he created the Primskirtbuilder - based upon the LoopRez script which is in public domain. And decided to release it under GPL license. Which ment more residents could create even better prim skirts with even more ease. Even more jiddy I was when I heard that not only I thought it is a kick-ass tool for creating prim skirts and that NCI and TUI were considering using it to teach classes. (You can find the Primskirtbuilder at Mindulle. Grab and distribute! ;))

Maties, danger! Jerry Martin and patents on starboard!

Highly disappointed in avatar human nature I was, when Dalien IM’d me that Jerry Martin - from Fashionetics - was:

1. Threathening Dalien with ‘a pending patent’ on automated primskirt building.
2. ‘Suggesting’ Dalien would close the script and sell it for 2k l$ so they both could make money out of it. Closure of the code, as Jerry Martin puts it that well.
   

Huh? Well, if the patent is still pending, anything created before the actually patent date is safe, right? And if Jerry Martin’s automated primskirtbuilder - which he brags about is there since 2005, yet I’ve never heard of it - is that good, he would not have to fear Dalien Talbot’s free version?

(Dalien Talbot’s blogpost on this whole frenzy.)

Defend thy claim.

Having a hang for drama and being eager to defend the Primskirtbuilder - what I recon to be a great gift to Second Life residents and fashionistas in general - I TP’ed over to join the… euhm… conversation. Only to get to hear from Jerry Martin that I had nothing interesting to contribute as I knew nothing because he was born in 2005 and contributed that much to the grid and I was born in 2006 and did nothing. Hell, I hate such guys!

I asked Jerry Martin two important question which he both left unanswered:

1. What are you actually patenting? As I saw not much that he could patent in the Primskirtbuilder. The mathematics? Nah. The idea of using a script to rez objects? Nah. The LoopRez script? Nah. As it was not his but Ged Larson’s.
2. What is het that you created in 2005 that the Primskirtbuilder is - as you claim - a copy off? Show it to me, please. I’m curious and astonished that there would be another automated prim skirt builder by Jerry Martin that I did not hear of in my search for making the prim skirt creation more easy.

LoopRez targeted too.

When mister Martin TP’d out I quickly googled him. On which I found this page on Ged’s Larson’s - the creator of the original LoopRez script - blog that shows that already in januari 2007 Jed had - sort of - the same conversation with Mister Larson:

I initially posted his (red: Jerry Martin’s) notecard to me, but because a notecard might be construed as part of a “conversation”, which would be against LL ToS to post under resident’s expectations of privacy, I’ve removed it. The bottom line is that he tells me he has applied for a patent of his dress-making “invention,” and that he suggests that I should be aware of the “patent pending” status of his “invention.”

This is rather interesting to me, but doesn’t make me overly concerned. I wonder what portion of LoopRez infringes on his yet-to-be granted patent? Possibilities include:

1. the parametric definition of an ellipse, consisting of:
   • x = a cos (t)
   • y = b sin (t)
2. dividing 360 degrees (or 2*PI radians) by the number objects you wish to place radially symmetrically
3. the equation for a tangent unit vector at a position on an ellipse, which is published in equations 89 and 90 at Wolfram’s Mathworld
4. applying a fixed rotation to an object around a local axis (the “flare” rotation)
   
5. using llRezObject?
   

Another reason that I’m not terribly concerned, and would be happy to challenge his “patent”, in the unlikely event that the United States Patent and Trademark Office were to grant it, is that it fails to meet 2 of the 3 criteria that all patentable inventions require: “new / novel” and “non-obvious.” Multiple people have independently come up with the same method to place objects along an elliptoid path in space, including Ariane Brodie and Johanna Hyacinth.

International waters… euh… public domain.

Jed Larson states that he finds Jerry Martin’s claims do not have merit. Especially since the original LoopRez was released into public domain:

Finally, once in the public domain, it is usually not possible to successfully obtain IP rights. I point out that I freely released the LoopRez v0.6 script into the public domain, which includes both the non-original concept of placing objects in an ellipse, as well as the corrected mathematical formula of tangent vectors.

I agree on that. And I would like to add that I find that Jerry Martin - despite his old age - doesn’t seem to contribute much to the grid when asking GPL licensed stuff to get closed.

Are his canons actually loaded?

And in the end, I wonder if Jerry Martin really has filed that patent. And if he’s not just lying to scare off the competition.

For those interested, the main chat logs are included below. Just click ‘more’.

Dalien Talbot: Jerry: well, you mean your dressmaker has not much more to offer besides a simple triginometric function to place the prims ?
Jerry Martin: i work in sl full time and own Fashionetics , linden lab is aware of the patent status of this machine , they are sponsering it on their website
Dalien Talbot: Dinova - meet Vint - the reason for this builder to appear - i did it for her :)
Jerry Martin: hello vint
Dinova Yanyean: hwllo Vint
Dalien Talbot: Vint - this is my old friend Dinova
Dalien Talbot: and Jerry, who appears to have made something similar a year ago
Dalien Talbot: which is now going through the patent process :)
You: hi Dalien.
Dalien Talbot: i feel sooooo much like in RL now :)
You: DesertWolf says hi =)
Dalien Talbot: hi to him too :)
You: Hi Jerry.
You: Dinova.
Vint Falken tips her hat
Dalien Talbot: ow i think it is a tremendous idea.
Jerry Martin: now Dalien , you made this to help your lady friend or gf
Dalien Talbot: well, and i wanted the others to save the time too.
Dalien Talbot: Vint: I have an idea.
Jerry Martin: i made the 1st one to help my gf , she was a very slow builder and i did it out of my love for her
You: Dalien, let me hear?
You: Jerry, I’m not a slow builder, thank you…
You: and if you did it out of love for her
Jerry Martin: your lucky
You: then why are you trying to make money out of it now?
Dinova Yanyean: sorry but isn’t it a free script
Dinova Yanyean: a script can be rebuild
Dinova Yanyean: patent is just maybe in us and not in the world
Jerry Martin: i make my living as a full time merchant and content creator here in sl
You: And Jerry, I’m sorry
You: but from the looprez script
You: there’s an advanced version
You: which isn’t open source
Jerry Martin: yes , i’m aware
You: so actually that guy was even before you
Dinova Yanyean: sorry this is afree market isn’t it
You: then why are you going after the patent?
You: 1. the basis script isn’t yours
You: 2. the idea isn’t yours
You: 3. this version is probably better
Jerry Martin: linden lab is in the US and under the laws of the US
You: Jerry, that’s not answering my question. Again. The basic script isn’t yours. The first commercial spin-off isn’t yours.
You: Why do you claim the patent?
Jerry Martin: i made this in 2005
Jerry Martin: well before any of you where here
You: pré-looprez?
You: and you are filing patent now, why?
Jerry Martin: ged made his dec 2006
Jerry Martin: a year later then me’
You: as far as I know US laws, patent only counts from the date it is registered. it does not ‘backfire’.
You: correct?
Jerry Martin: yes correct
You: so… ?
You: ‘linden labs is in the US under US laws’ is a bogus threath then
You: as nobody did anything to break the law
Jerry Martin: i didn’t come here to dispute , i came here to request closer of the code and that Dalien make some money from it
Dinova Yanyean: Jerry make better skirt machine and try to sell it
Jerry Martin: i already have a machine
You: Why close a code?
You: To make money of it?
You: the whole idea of SL imho is to share
You: to experience
You: to learn
Jerry Martin: well , for alot of us that got past all that , we end up working in here as you may someday too
You: well, you had a lot of time (bragging about your age) to commercialise it.
Dinova Yanyean: Dalien worked on it too
You: you didn’t.
Jerry Martin: works on what
Dinova Yanyean: on making the skirtmachine
You: go and make money on RL brands that want to join SL
You: or something
You: but do not sharge residents for tools to create
You: unless they are want to give money for it, not because they are forced
You: this is what makes SL great
You: residents sharing knowledge
Dalien Talbot: thx Micheal :)
Dalien Talbot: ow speaking of making money - I do make the money out of it :-)
Dalien Talbot: and thanks Amunet
Dalien Talbot: the SL is touted as a “new world”
Jerry Martin: well , you can do better for your self Dalien
Dalien Talbot: do we want to make it a laggy replica of the 1st world?
Jerry Martin: thats all i’m trying to say
Dalien Talbot: yes i can do better which is why i am now working on something new :)
Jerry Martin: great , looking forward to seeing something creative
Vint Falken looks very tender at dalien =d
You: jerry, a better version of some old stuff is creative
You: :d
Dalien Talbot: the money is not everything - there is also such thing as happy people realising what they would like to do
Dalien Talbot: if you look at my profile
Dalien Talbot: i do not have the payment info
Dalien Talbot: i came and started in SL without any money
Dalien Talbot: to learn and do stuff
Jerry Martin: i came here the same way , as a virtual explorer
You: Jerry, from your profile: *copy pasted wrong piece here*
You: oopez
Dinova Yanyean: lol
Dalien Talbot: and even uploading a single texture was triggering a thought
You: sorry, anyway, making SL a more pleasant place, => does that include making fellow residents pay for pleasant buildng stuff?
Jerry Martin: this is a rl job for me
Dinova Yanyean: and so your message is…. stop making good skirtmachines and give it for free away otherwise i have less money
Dinova Yanyean: sorry i don’t understand it
Dinova Yanyean: please explain it
Jerry Martin: well folks , i must be off , got some some work to do before i log off , so nice to meet you and dalien , best of luck to you in this new world
You: jerry, sorry, but i never even heard of your skirtbuilder
You: which says enough about it’s use and functionality
Dalien Talbot: ok, thanks a lot Jerry
You: imho you’re just trying to make money on smth that isn’t all that good
Dalien Talbot: just one thing
You: make something that’s worth paying for, and people will buy it
You: regardless of dalien’s - great - skirtbuilder or not
You: ? :d
Dalien Talbot: i presume that patenting your device does not make this one illegal ?
Jerry Martin: not yet
You: never will
Dalien Talbot: “not yet” = there is a presumption that it will ?
You: anything before the patent was registered is legal
Dinova Yanyean: i don’t want to be unfriendly just was a question
You: also updates to that
Jerry Martin: it could but thats only if i hire an attorney to enforce us patent law
Dalien Talbot: thx Marisa :)
Jerry Martin: sl is’nt the only place , there will be new places just like this
JC Anvil: I am so confused
You: Jerry, by now I’m curious after what you did create in 2005 that is that good
You: that it needs patenting
Jerry Martin: you need to research it Vint , you are 8 months old and maybe have alot more of this world to explore , when i came here there was 40,000 members total and i watched this place explode , you question my acomplishments with out any real knowlege of what really took place back then but thats ok , not your fault
Dalien Talbot: yeah Jerry. one thing though
Jerry Martin: sure
Dalien Talbot: should we try charging money for the things that should be commoditized, or should we push ourselves to create something fundamentally new ?
You: research: give me an surl or a notecard description
You: and stop the ‘hey, i’m older’
Jerry Martin: sorry
You: as far as I can see, dalien ’s younger, but contributes more to this world with creating stuff for the residents to use
You: then you do with trying to make open source scripts closed
Jerry Martin: how many products do you have ?
You: so, I’d say good intentions count for more then age
You: I did not question your accomplisments btw. I just asked what exactly you were going to patent
Dalien Talbot: I don’t do business, so whatever is here is just some random stuff that I feel like sharing
You: you constantly say ‘i made this first’
You: but I wonder what the ‘this’ is
Dalien Talbot: so if you have much more things in the portfolio - then I suppose should be not much of a problem ?
Jerry Martin: ok , folks , i’m otta time , Dalien , i’ll get back with you and to all of you , have a very nice weekend , and off i go , byeee
You: lmao
Dinova Yanyean: it sounds like a threat
Dinova Yanyean: really
You: well, i still think he had nothing to show for
Dinova Yanyean: ohh i wish you luck in the new world
You: or did he show you anything, dalien?
Dinova Yanyean: ohh i will come back
You: and I wished to do this whilst he was here, i shall do it now:
You: draw
You: :d
You: holster
Dinova Yanyean: lets give this dicussion evenn to famous blogs
Dalien Talbot: lol :)
You: Dalien, may I blog this tomorrow?
Dinova Yanyean: yes
You: ‘how not to contribute to SL becoming a great place to live’
Dalien Talbot: sure - it was a main chat, no ? :)
You: let me see how ‘jerry martin’
You: ranks in google
Dalien Talbot: or first copypaste it to Torley and ask what he thinks ? :)
You: thinks on what
You: patent isn’t enforcable back in time
You: so you’re safe anyway
You: f*ck it’s a baseball player too, can’t top that :d (google)
Dalien Talbot: :D
Dalien Talbot: so he is probably if not in a worse situation than you :)))
Dalien Talbot: but oh well, you got a very nice material for the blogpost :)
Dinova Yanyean: yes we should show all people how the people thinks that they diserv to sell trash for years
Dinova Yanyean: without changing someting
Dalien Talbot: indeed
Dinova Yanyean: and trying to lie about patent to others
Dinova Yanyean: damn it
You: http://slged.blogspot.com/2007/01/intellectual-property-and-patents-i.html
You: ged on this
Dalien Talbot: the @#$ patent system is killing anything
Dalien Talbot: ow
Dinova Yanyean: we will see if its correct
Dinova Yanyean: he even didn t invent the script
Dinova Yanyean: a script can made in thousend variation
You: read ged’s post
You: he told the guy to f*ck off
You: not as Jerry claims agreed
Dinova Yanyean: Vint please put it in the sl forum
Dalien Talbot: we need to talk to Ged!
You: Dinova, I’ll first write my blogpost tomorrow morning
Dinova Yanyean: yes we should show him all
Dinova Yanyean: sure
Dinova Yanyean: ok
You: feel free to copy paste the text or whatever
You: it’s under CC anyway
Dalien Talbot: lets ping Ged ?
Dinova Yanyean: that all dicussion will make your SKirtmachine more famous
Vint Falken pities she doesn’t take a snapshot of mr jerry
Dinova Yanyean: lol
You: would have fit fine for the ‘SL assholes’ series
You: Dalien: you talk to Ged and keep me posted for the blogpost?
Dinova Yanyean: you could take his profile photo
You: <- should go to sleep
You: or I im
You: dinova, nah, i cant. it’s his photograph. that would be copyright infrignement
You: :d
Dinova Yanyean: ohh ok
Dalien Talbot: Vint: indeed. goodnight.
Dalien Talbot: vint what was Ged’s last name ?
You: i need to go to bed according to you? =))
You: Larson?
You: Larsen, sorry
You: Same here Dinova
You: I hardly ever start to talk to people
You: but feel free to engage conversation with me. ;)
Dalien Talbot: hi Tashaco :)
Dalien Talbot: grab the thing while the evil people with patents did not start suing :))))
Josie McGann is Online
Elise Mersereau is Offline
You: lmao
Dinova Yanyean: its the best skirtmachine ever made
You: grab it and distribute, i would add
You: :d
Dinova Yanyean: without stupid commands
Dalien Talbot: indeed! :)
Dalien Talbot: grab and distribute! :)
Dinova Yanyean: we scared her away
Dinova Yanyean: lol
You: grab and distribute and don’t listen to jerry martin
You: lmao, awesome blogpost title

Tags: copyright, dalien, Jerry Martin, LoopRez, patent, prim skirt builder

• Just how did he get the bed?!
• SLinovations: Prim Skirt Builder, FlickrView and SLIMChat
• IMVU Avatars "stole" my eyes (textures)