Linden Lab on Age Play & Child Avatars
November 15, 2007 3:24 am
Linden Lab clarifies it’s stance on Age Play, but I do wonder, it might sound nice, but will they ever be able to ‘patrol’ the whole grid? Even with help from the Second Life community?
Though, please note it does not violate this policy merely to have a child-like avatar. It is not our intent to banish child-like avatars in and of themselves does sound nice! So, fellow SL residents, please grasp this:
- You do not insult fellow avatars just because they have a child avie.
- You do not ban avatars just because they look like a child.
I do have some questions about the practical manner of this statement. According to Linden Labs, the following is ‘wrong’ and punishable:
For instance, the placement of avatars appearing to represent minors in proximity to “sex beds” or other sexualized graphics, objects, or scripts, would violate our Community Standards, as would the placement of sexualized “pose balls” or other content in areas depicting playgrounds or children’s spaces;
My guess is about 75% of scripted objects in Second Life have some functions related to sex implemented in them: try to find a bed without sex animations, a couch without - French - kissing ones, a collar or necklace without submissive poses or erotic dances? A car without back seat?
Define ‘proximity’: if it’s 10 meters, there will not be a child allowed to walk the grid anymore. Will puritans start reporting them if they are talking to someone who’s wearing a scripted collar?
So we’ll have to start creating content labelled ‘child proof’? Or do we trust our fellow residents, and will agree that a child sitting on a couch with sex functionality is not wrong, it is only a wrong doing when the child actually uses the sex functions?
I’ve used Annette Blachere’s self portrait as an illustration with this blogpost, because it reminds me of her. She had her - a child avatar’s - ‘nightmares’ displayed at the Second Life 4th Birthday event. Those nightmares- - although not sexual, they could have been interpreted that way - would now be considered to fall under ‘the graphic depiction of children in a sexual or lewd manner violates our Community Standards‘ and thus be punishable with account termination in stead of still being considered - Second Life - art.
I may still shoot a kid in Second Life - they say nothing about violence? - but the real danger is not me murdering kids, no, it’s fully dressed kids standing near a couch. *rolls eyes*
I’m curious what you have to say about this…
30 Responses to “Linden Lab on Age Play & Child Avatars”
There you go again, issuing decrees, Comrade!
Re: ” * You do not insult fellow avatars just because they have a child avie.
* You do not ban avatars just because they look like a child.
So typical of those who scream “freedom of expression” and then take it away from those who in fact wish to oppose something they find creepy! Of course they can find something creepy and out not to suppress that very normal reaction!
If someone wants to insult or ban “child avatars” — they can. They must be free to do so, if you advocate that peple should also be free to be child avatars.
I’ve found in my experience that with child avatars, most of the time, if there isn’t “ageplay’ and sexualized, lewd behaviour, there is disturbed and griefing behaviour. I think it’s usually quite visible how there is a correllary. It’s not about keeping kids out, which is difficult to do; it’s about preventing adults creating a licentious substrate for rationalizing predators and child pornography.
I think I’ve outlined some excellent arguments against “ageplay”:
secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2007/05/the_pedophiles_.html
It is so true what is said in the above comment…
If I find it e.g. creepy that old ladys pose like middle-aged men, I am entitled to say so.. and it is my right NOT wanting them near me..
Because I found in my experience that these kind of avatars scorn everything they dont understand or that doesnt fit into their conservative world. And they usually fall back on endless, aimless posts and name calling in order to overcome the fact the cant keep up with the pace of the younger generations..
Its not about forbidding grandma to play SL, which is difficult to do. Its about keeping conversations civilized
So, its not up to you to tell me I must respect the elderly Vint..
I do.. when they deserve my respect.
I think I’ve outlined some excellent arguments against them here:
http://www.vintfalken.com/benjamin-duranske-vs-catherine-fitzpatrick/
:-p
Veronique, you’re not behaving!
*sends Veronique over to the corner*
*tells Veronique to stay there*
*tells Veronique that she has been a very very very bad girl*
*tells Veronique that she actually deserves a spanking*
*tells Veronique, that because I am a very tolerant meta-person, she escapes from being spanked*
*tells Veronique that as punishment she will not get any candy or WindLight tonight and will have to go straight to bed*
*adds ‘alone’ after that, just to be sure*
Wow is that ever original — not!
Veronique and the other freaks here can be reliably counted upon like clockwork to engage in the most infantile and self-indulgent intolerance — such conservatives! lol
It’s amazing how these clusters always go together in the “Geek Religion” — intolerance, censorship, indulgence of child pornography… — such a curious cult.
Lol Vint.. I am still doubting which part of the punishment is worse.. going to bed alone, or NOT receiving the spanking.. lmpao..
But, to stay on topic: I dont have problems with child avatars.
If it is considered normal that somebody impersonates a copy of his RL self, a demon, a dragon, a middle aged man or whatever fantasy creature, or even, god forbid: a Neko.. then why shouldnt child avatars not be allowed?
If this is supposed to be a WORLD (a point of view our friend PN is defending fiercly lately; see some of the latest posts on his blog), then children have there place here too.
If SL is a place to copy and play little utopian suburbia (again, the wet dream of PN and his renting business), then child avatars are indispensable.
But on the other hand, if one wants to roleplay a child in SL, it think it is only fair you stay in your role. Thus: behave like one. Play family with your mommy and daddy, on the playground with other children or whatever.. Dont go and prostitute yourself. That is not child behaviour..
Yes I know, sex between adults and children exists in RL.. but then generally it isnt the child who initiates it.. its abuse by the adult..
In the old days, when I still was working in a SL club, I had to be hostess one night. At a given moment, a guy entered accompanied by 2 little girls. I asked them in a friendly manner to leave, and they did. Did I ban or insult them? No. There was no use for it. But, although I had nothing against them, or the way they looked, I had a problem with them being there, at that moment. A little 8 years old girl just doesnt belong in a nightclub when a ladies party with strippers is going on.. If they had been visiting the place at another time.. I gladly would have given them a guided tour….
So, I dont think you can put out general rules about accepting the presence of child avatars.. you really have to take a look at each individual situation.. and count with the sensibleness and responsibility of the adult playing a child..
Now this “not placing a child av near sexual orientated objects”.. that really IS ridiculous. As if RL kids arent confronted with situations or objects like that. Its not because I “perform certain activities” in my RL appartment that my sister with her children cannot visit me anymore or has to refrain from entering a 50m perimeter around me…does she? The little critters sometimes even play in my bedroom… just jumping and rolling on the bed, mind you.. :-)
I mean.. its not the fact that there is a bed, and what you as an adult do in it that makes it unsuitable for children… its what THEY do with it..
So, if all of this is considered normal and fully accepted in RL then why…
Oh, .. sorry.. the doorbell…
damn, its the police..
with an arrest warrant…!!
see you in 25 years people.. :-(
My two bits…
I suspect the rule of thumb they are going to use for defining lewd underage behavior is the “I know it when I see it” rule. That probably makes the most sense. Attempting to define it exactly is just an invitation to people trying to game the rules.
Anyway, it’s going to take a lot of hotair to argue in favor of any form of childplay. One of governments primary jobs and really each individuals moral responsibilities is to protect those who cannot protect themselves, and children are obviously at the top of the list. Virtual children are just an escalation fantasy step away from the real thing.
Every one of us was a child at one point, and some of us might have even been abused in real life. In a real civil society we all give up some rights for some peace. That’s why we have traffic lights, drivers licenses, and laws against hurting each other.
The crux of the issue I think is that we’ve grown used to essentially 100% anarchy. Now we are looking at 98% anarchy, -3% no gambling, -2% no child porn/ageplay, +3% inconsistent enforcement. The inconsistent enforcement is the hard part to take. I don’t have an answer for that. Nor am I really interested in proposing one.
*waves goodbye to Veronique* I’ll try to send some grey prim hair to the prison in about ten years to keep your look updated! ;)
But I could not agree more:
But on the other hand, if one wants to roleplay a child in SL, it think it is only fair you stay in your role. Thus: behave like one. Play family with your mommy and daddy, on the playground with other children or whatever.. Dont go and prostitute yourself. That is not child behaviour.
Veyron, the problem is that our children are capable of protecting themselves: they can just as well TP away, invest Lindens in defense, turn off the PC, … as any human adult, neko or furry on the grid. that does not put them in the ‘must be taken care for’ position anymore. This means that they are equally responsible. Others seem to translate that to ‘because they do not need protection anymore, and we can not steer them, as we can do with the RL versions, they are a threat.’
Giving up some rights for peace: ok. But I’m not willing to give up the right to have child avies on the grid. Nor am I willing to pretend those child avatars are like ‘porcelain’. We should treat them as other kids, and they should act like them. (So there is nothing wrong with them visiting a toilet where you may find a condom dispenser, for instance)
But I must admit, you’re right about the 3% being the hard one. Maybe. The maths in interesting anyway, though. =)
i play as a child avatar sometimes for roleplaying purposes (and also because i’m just too damn cute…) when roleplaying, my husband takes the role of my father, or my brother (yes he has a kid avvie too!) depending on the game. there are never any sort of sexual overtones nor have we ever done anything that could be concidered sick or “griefer” in nature. i’m glad to know that LL won’t have me killed for being a kid at times but i’m sad to see that people would find this to be creepy. i have the ability to be a dragon, or a rat or a kid or a human or what ever the hell i want to be. i’m not bothering anyone with it and i’m not doing anything against the tos.. so what’s the big deal?
I agree, Nimil. Strange that they think banning the child avies out of SL would solve all problems. In RL the kids are the victims, in Second Life they are looked at as criminals.
If ‘they’ are going to look at all this the first life way, then why not punish the adult humans avatars that want to have sex with the children and chase those of the grid? ;)
Too fine a line to have it at all. Second Life is for adults 18 and over. To say you are of age but then play a child is simply disturbing and I sure do not want that anywhere near me when i am in my adult virtual world.
If they want to have their own sims where they can stay and be monitored and not aloud out of their Adult-Baby, Diaper-Lovers sims thats fine with me.
and what about we who are not adult babies or diaper lovers lin? we who play children as a roleplay, i have no fetish that makes me want to be a child. i am a story writer, i am an artist, and sometimes the characters i create are children, mutants, half animals, vampires, monsters, you name it. diaper lovers, and adult babies are people with a sexual fetish for being in diapers or dressed and treated as children. so you cannot group all child avatars into one categorey. that makes you narrow minded and blind.
I’m so agree with all of you guys… i have not problems with child avatars, i likes second life for all the available options, ban childs is not the reason because i came into this world …so… Where can i find a child avatar??? ;)
Unreal Avatar from Kisskiss Zemlja has very nice ones. They are a bit cartoonish looking (with a bigger head) but totally cute! =)
Paedo cult freaks!
You r all some sick funked up mofos.
Stay in your sick NAMBLA world and stay away from everyone else.
oh, and Vint Falken is a fu$##! ahole!
Lin Wo, glad to see you behaving like an real adult here… . *rolls eyes* May I remind you I take family values very seriously.
lol wow, i’m so totally impressed with your maturity and adult behaviour lin. your narrow-minded attitude is the real issue here.
yes, pedophilia is wrong. is it pedophilia to dress as a child avatar? no. is it pedophilia to have pg fun and do nothing sexual what so ever? no.
i’ve yet to see anyone here say that they enjoy sexual activities with children or child avatars. so where exactly do you get the pedo part? or the cult part for that matter??? i was unaware that being a child was a religion!
Adults going onine to spend time with other adults dressed as toddlers. Speaking like toddlers and be spoken to like toddlers.
no, thats not normal.
i never said i was mature. i get paid a descent ammount to be an idiot.
Now go back to your Wonderland sim (self-proclaimed meet and greet for indescent behavior with adults and adults playing children).
p.s. can i have your real names so i can make sure you are not on the sex registry in my area?
i would like to meet you in world lin, and introduce you to the hundreds of characters i’ve created in my 2 years on second life. are there any other beings that offend you? my demon maybe? or my vampires? half human/half rat hybrid biological weapon?
are you by chance lacking an imagination? your second life must be rather dull :(
and for the record, my child avatar is 10 and speaks perfect english with not a hint of toddler…
Following the request of Lin i’d like to ask Linden Lab to ban all the “barbie-wannabe-oversized-breasts-dressed-like-going-to-the-oscars-wearing-sound-heels-and-blinking-till-you-need-a-cornea-transplant” avatars, we need a more moral and beauty Second Life…
You know i’m joking (although i think they are really disturbing), let’s enjoy the freedom Second Life has and let’s defend that freedom from the narrow minds. I won’t repeat the arguments, basically we all are supposed to be adults and banning child avatars for ageplay is like doing an “embargo” to an island, making the residents have hard times, just becuase you don’t like the president (oh, wait, that’s happening).
And Vint, don’t worry is Lin says you are an asshole… I like assholes (double click here ;-P).
hahahhahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa you keep responding. im fucking dying laughing here. haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
im posting this junks on my blog.
Nimil,
Dear, messed, up, crazy Nimil. You more than of the others are probably a pedo because you are super defensive…..and you want to meet me in real life. scary. I hope you are staying in touch with your parole officer, and keeping your address current on the sex offender registry
Lin Wo, keep it decent, please! I saw no one here insulting you, so either you behave or you shut up. You don’t walk up to someone in the street, saying ‘you’re a sex offender’ without proof of that. Same goes for the internet. If _anybody_ is abusing their so called anonymity here, it’s you.
As far as I’m concerned you’re a 33 year old white chick that weighs 140 - I hope that’s not kilo’s - that ones had a very cute Labrador pup. Don’t worry, I checked on the sex offenders list near Silver Spring, Nimil is not on the list.
i am happy to say i have no criminal record of any kind actually :) i’m also not attracted to children. sometimes i feel like a child, sometimes i feel like a labrat. i’ve never touched a child, in fact in real life i’m repulsed by the idea of even having children. i write stories. i’m 26 and highly attracted to my husband who is 34, there’s nothing
i never said i wanted to meet you in real life i ment second life. i have no interest in you in real life.
i’m not actually defensive, i just feel that you are not viewing this situation with an open mind and i detest closed minded people. you refuse to believe something that is infact a truth. NOT ALL WHO PLAY CHILDREN ARE PEDOPHILES
that would be like me saying, all blonde women are dumb, all nekos are closet bestifiles, all escorts on second life are men. by grouping someone into a generalized default you make yourself look like a rather small minded individual who has no interest on learning or changing. your attitude is appauling and i really just think that you should stay to your imaginationless world. why are you on secondlife lin? what is your reason for being there? what do you do with your day? do you sit in your pixel house and hate people?
and you’ll notice lin that i havne’t hidden anything about myself. my picture pops up when i post, my email and blog address are easily displayed. if i were a pedophile don’t you think i would hide behind the same curtain of anonymity that you are?
bah i cut off something i was saying…
i’m 26 and highly attracted to my husband who is 34, there’s nothing pedophilic about that.
omg middle school insults ( fat, ugly, stupid). you can at least be clever in comebacks. i expect more from you, sir.
wow, you totally stalked me. I think I am more afraid of you stalking me than a ppedophile…since i am 33.
p.s. i live 1 mile from silver spring. i am technically in chevy chase.
p.p.s. im pretty hot.
p.p.p.s. check out my awesome site: http://www.myspace.com/imnottooshabby
peace out bitches!
EAST SIIIIIDE!
I WISH I WAS 140!!!! i gained weight last year and am now 150. thanks for the compliment.
ahhhh i am addicted to responding. I just finally read your thesis comment Nimil.
a) i feel bad now.
b) you will be happy to know SL shut down access from my computer like over a month ago. I never used it for productive things anyway and am not paying a monthly fee.
c) how am i hiding in anonymity? im kind of a public figure.
ok…so I have reen following this for a while now…
and I am just a little confused…(maybe it is the baby in me..)…but tell me again why is it wrong to want to return to a time when life was simple, when I felt safe and loved, when I got hugs when I was sad, or told I was beatiful just because. Tell me why it is wrong for me to want to experience unconditional love again. And, tell me why it is wrong for the man who loves me to give me that??? Though I have no doubt there are those out there who use SL for sick, perverted desires…That is not the case for all of us! For my man and I it is not about sex…not even in the same universe as sex! It is about me needing to feel loved in an unconditional way…and about him needing to love me in that same way. So, like I said…tell me what it’s wrong?
your “friend” can not give you those things as an adult??
when i think of love and hugs my mind does not go straight to thinking about children.
somehow at 33 i manage to get and give hugs..with other adults, and share and feel loved….as adults.
i spent enough time “undercover” in your child av world on SL to know enough and not be lied to about what i have seen and heard.
you r fucking pedos!
[…] remember clearly when Linden Lab blogged about child avatars, I was so relieved. Ken D Linden said: ‘Please note it does not violate this policy merely to have a child-like […]
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