Second Life is the Garden of Eden: W00t!
August 25, 2007 4:27 pm
Our love for online gaming reveals to us our inherent longing for the Garden. Virtual worlds imitate the purity of life before the Fall by pretending to remove the immediate consequences of sin. However, we must remember we will not find an ideal world apart from the crucifixion. The cross guarantees for us a coming new world removed of every hint of sin. (Rom 8:18-30) In the meantime, everything we touch will continue to be affected by sin–even it is by the click of a mouse.
I responded on both posts. Couldn’t help myself. I don’t think it will pass moderation, so here we go:
LMAO.
“Our love for online gaming reveals to us our inherent longing for the Garden.”
Let me see, we have SLex. Most are not very happy with gambling being abolished. I’m not in there for God’s sake, but for mine. It’s a world without limits, especially no ‘moral’ ones. You can experiment to your liking, be it with gender or with scripting or with social interaction, or with design, or with lack of gravity or with…
Those virtual worlds are about creativity, exploring - others and yourself -, creating, sharing, experiencing, … but, luckily, not about God.
We have Linden Gods, not Christian Gods. We don’t need Him. Really. Please! I think he has still a mess to clean up in First Life, before He starts to interfere in Second.
If Second Life were the Garden of Eden, Eve would have never been kicked out. She would be making RL money out of it though. =d
23 Responses to “Second Life is the Garden of Eden: W00t!”
Sad, very sad indeed.
Well, if there are believers… the next step is someone standing up front and saying, “We need your money to build a larger church”.
Some say that this is already happening. ;-)
Looks like no posts at all have gone past moderation :-)
Oh my god, indeed :) I’m waiting for the day the religious zealots will take over SL and there will be a *beep* each time you try to say a nasty word.
Btw Vint, the pic is visible on the blog from Germany, but not when I click on it. Sad as this is, this also shows a possible way to get around the Flickr censorship.
“We need your money to build a larger church”.
BRB. *sends catholic people very friendly letter about asking money for Tiana’s church*
Flickr censorship: that is because it is showing the farm picture with a link to it’s flickr page. The .jpg from the farm url does not know you’re not supposed to see it. There are a lot of tools using those farm urls to display pictures, one of them I used at the Cannery Picture overview (flash based). If you can do PSP this seems interesting: photo gallery flickr with cakephp and api. Anyway, with the API they are allowing to see all pictures, but not ‘through’ their site, they just host them, so I assume then they are applying to German law.
Hey, I was already thinking to found a religion here :)
And about zealots - don’t worry. Since opensim is bsd licensed, there will be enough worlds for all :D
I have that cross! Not much of a built, it was a freebie. But it gave me lot of pleasures :p both with me tied to it and with me having a whip. I should invest in a new one with more poses….
well it past moderation..
And the 2nd (life2gether) one even posted a reply, asking you some questions.. honesty demands that you answer them Vint…
** me chuckling and thinking : this can be fun… **
but real arguments,… no easy platitudes (yet) please…
:-)
I cannot go there, I’ll start ranting and go to hell. But, keep me informed…
Now I know why I switched my Flickr account from a german to a british Yahoo account. The only way to see Vints pics ;)
*goes to answer* (will someone hold my hand, please?)
/me going there too….
Hell, I was missing talking to religious ppl for a while. At least, my skin needs a bit of tanning :p
(Vint, just don’t go to those tricks with god as omnipotent as Anonimous did. That ting doesn’t work)
*bait thrown…. waiting….
Dandellion, I do not wish to tell them why they should not believe in God. I want to explain to them why there is no place for God in my Second Life. (Which is mainly in analogy with my First Life. ;))
PS. Dandellion: thank you for holding the hand. But hun, I said ‘hand’, not ‘breasts’! ;)
My reply:
Would you agree then that the world we live in has moral limits?
No, but the societies we live in have. Where to ‘moral limits’ are an average of it’s members. (And the member’s morals on their part, or often based on the society’s morals.)
I say Second Life has no morals, as it’s society is that large and deverged, so that it’s impossible to take an average. Add to that that society has no way to control and/or punish behaviour that goes against it’s morals - you can just create another account with another name - or that some people just get into Second Life with the aim to do bad things (be it out of greed or just for ‘kicks’), I think we will never have an ‘average moral’. And thus no moral at all. If there is any, it is each seperated Second Life citizen, and it’s based on his First Life moral with a bit adjustements towards the virtual world (which most of the time means moral is more freely then in First Life).
You also mentioned how this world (First Life as you put it) is messed up and that God needs to clean it up. How did this mess start and how is God responsible for it?
How did this mess start: probably when on the sixth day (if I remember correctly?) he created man. As for the responsability for this mess: just look at what people do and have done in His (be it that he is catholic, muslim, or whatever) name. God was just an excuse, created for people to suppress, to wage war, to keep people silent, to stop us from thinking or to not needing to think. To not have to explain our behaviour. To not need to take responsability. To not have to think about what makes us ‘man’ not ‘animal’. If there is any such thing. I’m sorry, that I have to conclude, that over the thousand of years, Gods did mankind more bad then they did good. So we are responsible for creating God and the mess. ;)
What are you pursuing in Second Life, and have you attained it? So has Second Life satisfied your deepest longings or left you empty and wanting?
That’s a very personal question, that I would probably not even answer on my own blog. What I am pursuing? Partly it is the exploring I wrote about earlier. The new things, the discovering, … Also there are a lot of interesting people on it. Yes I know, there are also a lot of interesting people in First Life, but as an example: recently someone asked me if we would have talked if we were sitting next to eachother in a bar. The conclusion was: ‘No. Probably not. As we would not have had - at first glance - anything in common to start conversation on.’ And then there is the creating part. There is an enormous freedom to create. Be it personal stuff, or helping to shape ‘a world’ as we would like the world to be. But even with that, we realise it is a virtual world. In my Second Life, guns are highly encouraged, as you can not kill anyone. In my First Life, I would not even want to own one. As First Life, it’s a combination of both, and although they do sometimes are comparable or they communicate, my deepest RL (real life, first life) longings still differ from my deepest SL longings. And both lifes leave me empty and wandering sometimes. Yet I prefer to think about that emptyness, in stead of filling it up with a deity solely created for that purpose.
*blushes
I think thats a good volley across the net. I await to see if you get a forehand or backhand
… my reply to them..
still awaiting moderation..
“I dont consider myself a religious person, but what is my RL’s philosophy of life is of no significance here. Nevertheless I do reckon that religion was/is a major building stone of our actual societies.
Besides the atrocities done in Gods name, and where Vint refers here to, religion also has brought good things to humanity.
I am thinking of schools, hospitals, patronising the arts,..
Though, I better rephrase this: it brought good things via people who had a humanistic view on it.
By people who really applied what e.g. Jezus showed regarding taking care of others, sharing etc..
In fact, for what I recall of it, he focused on that, He didnt judge that much about “moral” issues.. didnt he let prostitutes and other “sinners” join Him?
Yet, many times, God and religion merely serve the benefits of the ones who have the power. And it is here that the concept of sin comes in.
It is used to scare people. To deprive them of a better future, heaven, whatever they long for …
To make them walk between the lines so that the rulers can keep enjoying their privileges.. Religion, morality and sin as a tool of mass control..
Now of course, in real life we need some agreements about conduct, in order to coexist with our fellow humans.
It is the NOT living according to the laws of the jungle that seperates us humans from the animal world.
So a set of rules are needed to run a community.And in old times these were based on religion, or better, rules of conduct were implemented into religious text..
Because that was what people feared the most; the wrath of God
However, SL is a different kind of society.. a different kind of world. Call it even Utopia if you want.
But the thing is, we are there just because it gives us a (virtual) way to be different. To do things,unleashed from the conventions that restrict us in daily life..
Maybe for some this may lead to e.g. electronic promiscuity, or other activities that common society in RL considers to be vices, but many also experience a big creative drive in SL.
Or engage in a lot more social contacts then in the real world. And I am referring to talking, exchanging ideas, opinions,… here.
Why? Just because of the lack of all these restrictions that we experience during our day-today worries. Be these restrictions legal, moral, or just common sence..
Its in a garden, in the open, that flowers bloom, not in the forbidding enclosure of a cellar.
If we start implementing all our regular codes of behaviour into SL, making it a mirror world, just a copy/paste version of real life, will it still be a 2nd life then? What will be the use of it?
Of course one can reply: yes, why do you need Second Life? Why do you want to escape of the real world?
But, doesnt the same question go for a lot of activities? Travelling, going to the movies, reading a book, even the Bible.. all we do out of a desire for something better…
Longing is of Human Nature..
And, just for curiosity, a last question: what is sin?
Is it going to a foreign country, suppress and kill, all on the pretext of protecting liberty, civilisation and moral values (based on a twisted interpretation of the Word) ; (In God We Trust..,remember), and to continue running petrol guzzling SUV’s..??
Or is it, in a phantasy world, exercise free will and enjoying the pleasures of life, both gifts that God supposedly granted us??? ”
btw : I like your answer Vint. It states your vision and opinion, without walking into the trap of the easy scolding on religion, as many tend to do..
** me writes down a remark : Vint passed the test **
Veronique, your reply got through. I added mine too. I find it a bit idiot that she’s arguing I do not know the bible - as I do. So, I think indeed, this discussion will lead to nowwhere.
Your answer makes sense too, although it’s a but more ‘moderated’ then mine is. =)
Now, do we go and figure out the sin thingie? ;)
oh… what exactly are you hinting at Vint???
my twisted mind, encouraged by the whispering of the little devil on my left shoulder, senses a tempting offer there..
but sorry, its not you, its me,.. I do have a cat-allergy…
lmvpao…
:-p
@veronique: she said “sit”, not “lay”, if i may have an opinion there :-)
@vint, veronique: well, arguing on this subject is a little bit like arguing whether the green traffic light that you see is more or less green than the same green traffic light that I see on the same crossing.
I consider everyone to be free to build the mental construct that would best support their desire for the self-improvement (as that is what it is really all about imho). As soon as their mental construct does not interfere with my mental construct which I have built for myself which most optimally helps with my self-development. Anyone going beyond that will be carefully considered for the compliance with my mental model, and expunged if non-compatible. No arguments whatsoever even needed.
Besides, “incite” is spelled as “insight” (amusing typo though), and conception does not seem to be used in the right context either. (Ow yes, before anyone accuses me, I do find the joy in being selective in my nitpicks :)
On a separate note, making a parallel between the SL and RL, not everyone did like LL’s witchhunt on CP/casinos/whatnot :) So, that is at least one good reason why we have the “badness” IRL. Besides the reason that to appreciate something good you do need the counterpart too.
And about the jungles - well, it is still jungles, even though the rules are even less defined than originally, and more variables. Well, more complex jungles - that’s what probably makes us human….
@ Dalien: sitting - laying.. , wtf????
OMG, I see…!!! Do you men really have only one thing on your mind??
@Veronique: no less than two. One is simply not serious.
Care to comment?