The Second Life Record - Who’s On Top? - I like lists. But only when I’m in them. *grmbls* :p What’s the use of having a prok free blog, if she doesn’t know about it? Pfff. ;)
hmmmm…. records….. I wasn’t lazy….
alexa rank
vintfalken.com 107.764
metaverse.acidzen.org 225.263
which make us pretty high on that list…
Similarly,
google hits
vint falken 68.500
dandellion Kimban 18.300
I wouldn’t worry too much about Proks discovery of Alexa rankings. And I certainly wouldn’t agree with her analysis of why my name appears as often as it does…. Your2ndPlace.com has 498 pages at the time of this writing.
On top of that, Alexa rankings are easily gamed.
Google Page Rank works better, and Technorati gives a decent idea of how popular content on a site is over as period of time.
Um, I didn’t “just discover” Alexa, duh. I’ve been following it for years. And I’m not the first to compare SL sites on it.
Everybody knows about the problem with Alexa. But it’s good for comparison at least, whatever it’s issue. Technorati takes too long to wait for results, and Google page rank isn’t going to be any different when it comes to *comparison* of which sites have more visitors.
Gee, funny, I went out of my way to say that Europeans might have more hits now that there are more of them in the game, but it’s never enough, Vint has to keep venting.
BTW, Vent, I’d be interested to know: are you paid to do this blog? Is is in a sense a corporate blog for Rezzable? Or do you do it just for the love of self-expression?
And I said the next time I did a list, I’d include your blog since it’s up in the 100,000 rank, but maybe I need to work at having a Vint-free blog?
Alexa is the best we have for such things, I guess. But should be combined with technorati figures. (As only as to make up for blogs hosted on typepad, blogger, wp.com, … showing up better in Google and thus getting more search hits.)
And yes, I had to keep venting. Because you claim that those ‘personal blogs’, as you that easily dismiss them, have no news value at all and do not write about politics and social subjects. Look at Dandellion’s blog for instance, that has a nice variety of subjects covered in a in-depth and interesting way, mainly in the .. ow.. lookie… society and politics area. Second sex? Well, if SLescorts aren’t a a big part of our society’s fundamentals, then who are you kidding? Zoe Connoly? Gathering all the SL Bloggers and keeping us updated on all that happens in the steampunk scene. Etc.
And btw, Prook, no I am not payed by Rezzable to do this blog. My connection with it starts with friendship with RaR and ends with SLart at the Cannery. Yes, it’s for the love of self-expression. Opposed to you, I settle with only one blog where ‘me’ is the middle of our virtual world. =D
First work on having complete lists if you claim to do them, then worry about having a Vint-free blog. It’s not that urgent.
And Nobody’s technique to do what exactly? =d
PS. Prok, I think you have the most appealing long tows in the whole of SL. =d
Um, the subject under discussion is *your* personal blog. Could you point to your articles on politics and society instead of fashion and builds? kthx!
We weren’t talking about dandelion. Does he/she have a blog in the 100,000 range?
Most blogs are on typepad or wordpress, but the traffic isn’t because of these sites, because SL blogs are a niche and not featured.
My blog is personal, for that matter, but I don’t take a “dear diary” and “what I did today” approach, but have critical themes. And most of the blogs in my list were attempting to be media with a group of writers, not just a blog.
Technorati takes long if you are a new site. And it takes a while to build up the numbers.
Slescort is mainly sex. That’s a good chunk of society, but it’s still a niche blog. As is steampunk. The job of my list — which is a REPORT on which blogs are on top — isn’t to list every goddamn blog in SL, but to put up those with *the highest traffic*. The purpose of making such a list is not to be “definitive” but to see if people can add to it and top it.
Your main bitch seems to be “but I’m not on the list”. To which I said, oh, well if since you have 100,000 traffic, sure you should be on it, but I didn’t think of you because you mainly write on fashion and “what I built today” *shrugs*.
I don’t see why I need to “work on making a complete list”. I don’t see that you *matter* to the politics of SL. You have a fashion blog, but not even the most known one, eh? It’s one of many fashion blogs. If you do matter, demonstrate it. Traffic is gained by working for a company with high-traffic builds, even if they don’t pay for the blog. Mattering is demonstrated by having some impact on the world.
I hardly see why having one blog as my personal blog, and starting another newspaper with a group of writers makes me some sort of suspect chameleon, and makes you more authentic.
Nobody merely quotes large chunks from other people’s blogs *shrugs*.
Um, *make your own goddamn list*. I have no doubt it will still come out to be about the same, but merely with you on it. That’s what’s so retarded about your venting.
Veronique Kaminski
wrote a comment on September 3, 2007
@ Prokofy : “..because you mainly write on fashion and “what I built today”…”
Ever did read something on this blog?
I mean : the content of the articles, not just scanning through the posts headings..??
What impact can this blog possebly have if it inspires people to the Lindens office hours, in order to advocate topics that are put forward here..???
Can it be considered as “impact” if the national RL press cites a post by Vint about the precense and traffic hanky panky of a RL political party in SL…
Maybe T-shirts are just considered fashion by you, but what if their purpose is to make a statement? Draw attention to the growing influence of censorship in SL… Just carriers for an idea??
If you really consider yourself a journalist dear Prokofy.. better first investigate before launching a blank opinion…
Vero, Vint: It’s obvious that Prok is a very unhappy and vulnerable soul - as from her reply it is vividly seen how easily she falls into trivial rudeness. If she truly represents the “true journalism” this way - I feel sorry for the journalists…
I sincerely pity the people who try to show their importance this way.
Hehe, I’m not the one trying to “show my importance,” as Vint crossed the hemisphere to show up on *my* blog demanding a recognition for *her* importance and to be included in a list of blogs.
Uh, I didn’t just scan the post. I read them for an hour. Uh…where’s the censorhip? are you talking about the Burning Man statue? But there’s PG and M. You put it in M. It’s not censored. You are asked to put nudity in M. Is this all you can find for a cause in SL?!
I will hunt around for this post: “national RL press cites a post by Vint about the precense and traffic hanky panky of a RL political party in SL…” Sounds promising!
Dandelion, I’m *so* glad you’re on troll watch. I expect you to *hasten* over to my blog and cluck over this kind of hateful comment, which is ignorant as it is incorrect:
“Of course Prok, I do understand that you can not, or not wish to look further then that small world you created for yourself within the virtual world that is Second Life. A world that revolves around Prok, and where you can easily leave out the Japanese news blogs, the European blogs, … these are of no importance. Because of course, all new creations, projects, etc. are coming from that cute little island that is called the USA.”
And this is…why? Because I didn’t include a niche blog in my top blogs list? And because…why? When it was brought to my attention I said I’d include it, and explained that i hadn’t because it was a…niche blog mainly about fashion? Hello? And that makes me an ugly American lol? Of course I’m the very person covering Japanese and European sims *shrugs*.
NO, I am not going there…. I was there for a while but ideas/typed_letters ratio was too low. Not theat there are no interesting ideas, just, they are lost in overtyping. I know there are trols that roams the internet, but you are probably the first one that trolls own blog.
And…. writing that article/review of Vint’s built after you already got in bad relationship with her…. well, you’d agree that is a bit duscusting.
Prok: could you please point out the “hateful” part in that post was about the island ? :-) I’d consider your “I barely recall who you are”, and “Remind me who Dedric Mauriac is again?” to be more offensive - but maybe it is just my broken english, and you just merely wanted to state the facts - well, for the next occurence, this way of stating the facts does look offensive to the others, FWIW.
(Again, me being a cynical arrogant tekkie is noone to advise you the experienced professional journalist on the ethical behaviour and the need to take the language diversity into account)
As for the censorship - I won’t argue on that. It’s a moot point to try to prove the white is white to a blind.
I personally find your reviews even interesting in those rare moments when you are able to be non-polarized. All the other times they indeed look very close to professional journalism. (your rudeness excluded - even though the bigger media these days tend to toy around with that as well, so I can not blame you).
Your latest review that you have kindly linked here is indeed the proof of your professionalism. :-)
“I’m glad you have all that hittage, Vint. I barely recall who you are — but then, that’s the case now — there are way more Europeans than North Americans in Second Life, and it stands to reason that European sites will displace American sites (Vint is Belgian). Sorry, but I just don’t find your blog that interesting for my own purposes and tastes, so I don’t go to it and didn’t think to include it. But you must have a great following — congratulations! And next time since you’re in the 100,000 rank I’ll include it in the list.”
It’s honest; it’s biting because the truth hurts. Nothing offensive. Just true. Meanwhile, making up all this shit about me being in my little world in America, which is a world of worlds, is far more offensive and even racist. Take a look at yourself.
The Lindens didn’t censor something. Censoring would mean REMOVAL. They asked to move it into M as they have a distinction of PG and M. Like movies. Do you accuse movies that have an “R” rating as being “censorship”? Of course you don’t. That’s silly.
I didn’t “write a bad review of Vint’s build because I got in a bad relationship with her”. That’s silly SL-type drama-laden nonsense. I never bothered to write about Greenies before but I decided to go take a second look and see if I was wrong about this great artistic wonder of the Western World called Vint Falken who I had crassly, as an ugly American left out of my top blog list.
And I was…underwhelmed. I would have written exactly the same thing if I had never heard of Vint Falken — which was the case 2 weeks ago. I’m afraid I’ll never return to that blissful state now, but I think I’ve made some pretty astute comments on this build, and those adults interested in trying to make the builds better will likely take my suggestions on board.
Prok: Nothing to do with whether the truth hurts or not - but merely with the style of your first reply. Again, as a professional journalist you are, I am sure you know it much better than me (little irresponsible tekkie that is).
Again - i am not going to argue about your opion about censorship - it’s yours, I have mine - precisely because of this event I canceled the premium subscription, maybe there are others. And it’s your right to stay in your world and declare every opinion that is different from yours to be nonsense - it is somewhat logical and I fully respect that model - there’s place for more than just Euclidean geometry in this world.
About your reviews - the statement in my previous post still holds true, regardless of the explanations you bring in. I’ve seen more than this review, so can make my opinion. I don’t care much about improving your stats or preventing you from slowly driving yourself into wherever you seem to go.
About movies and censorship…. I don’t call censorship when somebody censor the nipples on the statue. I call that stupidity. And lack of culture and sense for history of own civilisation. European children are not affraid of statues with nipples. It is those criminals, vagabonds and religious freaks we had luck to chase away accross the ocean, who think that kids should not see nipples.
dandellion: I would not judge nations wholesale by the behaviour of the selected individuals, though indeed it seems to be an observable fact that the migrants from the original habitat do to some extent freeze the snapshot of the culture as it was at the point of migration - there’re plenty of examples of that in Europe as well.
There’re hopefully sensible people who are sober enough to realise that the imagination of today is the world of tomorrow. Even though the latest figures seem to indicate that the masses do not thoroughly enjoy what they see in the mirror :-)
Prok- quoting is a legitimate form of blogging. Rarely do I do so without commenting - and usually I comment at length, or do so well within a few lines (because, unlike you, I don’t feed my keyboard alphabet soup).:-)
Also, when I write a bad review on something - it isn’t considered to be a seal of approval. If you have issues with my popularity, well - I didn’t ask for it. You gave it to me with all those nasty posts you made about me last year. Your anger is a gift. :-)
You claim that you know the errors of Alexa, but you didn’t post that in your entry. In essence, anything that supports your opinions is considered a fact, and anything which you disagree with is not worth thinking about.
I’d expend more energy on you, but you bore me. You don’t think originally, and you are inflexible in your thinking. It is apparent you can’t hold 2 conflicting ideas in your mind at the same time - and that is completely fine. I don’t have a problem with that. Eventually you will go too far, someone will get tired of you - and you’ll be up to your ears in litigation. It could be anyone. You’ve called me a busybody, but you’re the gossip queen and the bully. You think you’re the first I’ve had to deal with? Hilarious.
Its somewhat pathetic, actually, but I have limited resources when it comes to pity - so I apologize for exempting you.
I am not judging nations by individuals! Nor I am judging individuals by their nationality!
There are Americans who were (and those that still are) brave, inventive and capable of building one of great countries in the history of our planet. But those are not afraid of nipples. And we are not talking about them here. We’re talking about slaves scared of the human body and its beauty. We are talking about those that will promote fascism in the name of their psychological problems.
dandellion: I know, I just wanted you to say that explicitly before you would get angrily accused of that by some :-) I have a lot of american friends too, who are very sensible, terribly smart and respectable.
But every beer has the foam - even though the foam is also a beer - and we all pay for it anyway, so I just take it as a fact of life - if the foam is too disgusting, one can blow it off the cup :)
As for the psychological problems - totally true. But the psychological problems need treatment, and I doubt they can be cured by shock therapy.
So I’d say why tease those who are weak… I’d say let’s leave them alone, or to a good doctor. They’ve already enough trouble to deal with themselves, let’s give them some peace they deserve in their conditions.
Chased them away, to freedom, where they wouldn’t *have* to have a nipple imposed on them, but they could put them in M or PG.
Hey, now, from which continent did all this ageplay stuff come from, eh? E-urope, if I’m not mistaken?
People who are out of arguments always begin using the mental illness tropes. It’s a condition all its own : )
I hardly think Americans are “afraid of nipples”. But the Lindens have to give meaning to the rules of M and PG. So they do. So move it to M, already, and stop fussing falsely about censorship.
Nobody’s blogs make extensive use of quoted material — they make up the entire blog. He patches on a sentence or two — and walla, he’s got his content. That doesn’t mean he isn’t capable of really long and turgid posts all his own. He is!
Here’s what I said in my blog about the problems and errors built into making a list of “who’s on top”:
“There are probably more effective ways to measure how influential some SL media is by doing sociological polls actually asking people what they read, or even polling advertisers and asking them where and why they place their ads, and how much they spend.”
And here’s what I explicitly said about Alexa, above the fold, Nobody neglected to read it:
“Alexa annoys people because they feel it’s not accurate, but when measuring SL media against each other, it probably is more or less telling the story.”
I dunno, how many more caveats can I make?
It’s Nobody who is unable to grasp the nuances in my blog, the “on the one hand…on the other hand” thinking that is in fact reflected, and has only a 2-D view of anything that isn’t himself, bloviating, or those under his thumb.
Again, anyone can go make a better list. Watch, it will hardly vary as to the positioning on the list, give or take a few.
Wow. I’m bad because I attribute sources and quote. Dear me. Your real problem is that I don’t quote *you*. So transparent. :-)
And Prok - it isn’t that I don’t understand the nuances in your blog. Its just that I think that the nuances are petty and not worth the electrons that they are printed on. I could sift through any garbage dump and come up with the same nuances - in about the same concentration. It simply isn’t worth it to me.
I don’t have to defend my writing and style to the likes of you, Prokkypoo. You can simply not read what I write. Thats what I do with your stuff. ‘Prokofy Neva’ as the author on anything is pretty much the kiss of death in my reading - and thats a pity, because every now and then you do have something good. Its sort of like water - if it weren’t for all the sewage, your writing would be consumable. I just can’t get past the color and smell, and the few times I have tasted… blech. But you shouldn’t cater to me - you should write as you wish.
The problem is that you just can’t leave other people alone - you go out of your way to be the center of attention. That would be understandable if you were a child. When a child doesn’t get attention, tantrums are thrown. You post enemies lists, you toss out all sorts of vindictive things to attempt to garner attention - most people don’t write of you, yet you go out of your way to try to insult them. Why? Don’t answer that, we know.
Gosh, Nobody, if you’re going to argue with me, you shouldn’t ban me from your blog, that way you get the traffic on YOUR blog instead of this Vint’s blog. Isn’t that how the traffic maven should work it? Oh, I have an idea! Quote whole swathes from Vint’s blog, or mine, then cap it with one sentence, walla, you have a post!
I would hazard a guess that Somebody who needs to come on to a blog that they don’t normally post on just to counter me is the one with the need for a center of a attention. Just sayin’.
Thanks for granting me permission to write as I please — I’m so honoured, oh Lord of the Internet! Ok, back to your mediocre musings now, hon.
Prok, I think there are actually people that enjoy your non-presence on their blog and forums over a good alexa ranking. I’m beginning to understand why. As for quoting me, well, he’s free to do so, as long as he credits the quotes. The lovely CC license, you know?
As for the politics and society, I do blog on those. If you missed them, you indeed did not read the blog thoroughly. One hour? I think it justs makes you a slow reader. Gambling, SLescorts, age verification, gambling, censorship in listings, insecure passwords, SLelections, coca cola trademarks, … yep, it’s all there. So I think I’ve covered most of the ‘critical items’ too. Of course, it depends on what you call ‘critical’. :P Unlike you, I do not like to give me readers a pré-chewed opinion. I to just hope to offer them the material to make them think for themselves and discuss the matters at hand. It often makes me to think ‘wow, yeah, that’s an interesting point of view too’ when following up the comments. An amazing feeling, I feel sorry for you that you can not experience that.
By the island you’re stuck on, I did not refer to the physical USA. I meant you seem to have a preconceived idea of what Second Life is or is suppose to be but that image is a few years old (yeah, you’re old, we know) and you are not very willing to change that view. I’m sorry you feel invaded by the Europeans, but look at the bright side, most of them brought culture along. Besides, it are mainly our neighbours that emigrated because of believe issues, not the Belgians. =)
As for the nipple: no ‘nude’ on PG sims does not mean no nude statues. I can not walk the street nude in Belgium but I can think of at least 15 nude statues in crowded areas within 50 kms of where I live. The problem is they consider a statue of a naked woman offensive whereas it has been overall accepted as being art, be it statues to worship a goddess or Michelangelo’s work or Rodin’s up to modern art. And now suddenly, according to LL, it can not be ‘art’ anymore, and any reference to female sexuality in art is regarded as ‘broadly offensive’. Next thing we know, we’ll all be forced to wear burka’s when visiting PG sims, as yes, eyes can express sensuality too?
With the piece on the Rezzable builds - which are in no way ‘my builds’ - you did, in my oppinion, loose the last bit of credit you had as a ’serious journalist’. Trashing all Rezzable, just because you dislike me, is like invading a country because you can not keep your own airspace safe. I’m sorry you now felt the need to ‘harm’ other people, to dismiss their hard work and the effort they put in, just because you dislike me and you wanted to ‘hurt’ me. Well you did. Because I find it horrible, how you can say these things, out of pure spite. Just take a look at Nephie Eerie’s pictures for example: art is ‘criticising’ or ‘depicting’ current society in one way or another. It has and it will always be. Look at her pictures, and look at SL, and then again say it is not art. If someone for instance writes a beautiful poem or song, is it not art, because it is not 3D? You’re probably going to say ‘my bad review of all Rezzable stuff has nothing to do with you’ and ‘I would not have liked it anyway’. Well, your timing is more then suspicious, and if you were anything near a ‘professional journalist’ you would have let it rest for a week at least, to avoid ‘conflict of interests’ and to have at least a hint of ‘objective journalism’.
Prok, I think that this is mainly your problem: Ok, back to your mediocre musings now, hon.
Everyone who does not write long - we’ll leave the high quality question open - essays like you do is less? C’mon! I’m sure the guy picking up your garbage could not do so either. But where would you be without him pickup up your garbage? What would be left of Prok when she has no more enemies to list, no more builds, persons and initiatives to trash in your writings? No more people to look down upon? No more blogs to look down upon because they are ‘just personal blogs’? I wonder, if you take all the negativism away, is there still anything of Prok left?
I think it’s more interesting to write original thoughts, don’t you? It’s not about a “CC license”.
And your mission is accomplished — you pouted, you got noticed!
I asked the Lindens what guidelines they were going by with this incident at Burning Life. “No bits,” I was told flatly. That’s how they see it. It’s their game. What can you do. PG movies only show nudity briefly, or partially. This is a big permanent-standing statue. Can’t it be moved into M? What is the big friggin’ deal? Otherwise M and PG have no meaning, and the Lindens look like fools for non-enforcement.
I’m well aware of all the nude statues in the world. Gosh, we even have them in backward right-wing fundamentalist SUV-driving America!
But this is how the Lindens called it. No need to argue with me about it; argue with them. I just don’t see why it wasn’t then moved to M instead of screeching.
Burquas in PG? Don’t be ridiculous. People who REALLY are forced to wear burquas in RL know how spoiled and silly you are in a game-like environment pouting and tantruming because you can’t bare your boobies. Put them in M. PG is not for bits. That’s how the Lindens define it.
I didn’t trash all of Rezzable because “I don’t like you”. As I noted, I barely remember who you are? With your flogging of these builds, the notecards bombarding me, and the Twittering, I went to see them. I thought the Cannery derivative and uninteresting. Greenies was a bludgeon: “Look at us, we are cool builders with tongue in cheek!” I liked Toxic Garden because it was interactive and engaging, and told a story — and said so. These builds are made by other people besides you — or does the entire universe revolve around you?!
Sorry, but I really thought the art sucked, was derivative, facile, and — in 2-D, which is always a waste of SL, IMHO. I think this about most “art” in SL, which tends to be of the BDSM-Cross-Apocalypse-Urban Distressed school of copy-cat stuff without much interest. I’m certain I’m not alone in thinking this.
I don’t understand why I have to let something “rest”. It’s been flogged for weeks. I finally went to see it precisely because people made such a fuss — yourself included. Parts were good; parts were underwhelming. I don’t get why I’m supposed to say something is awesome when it isn’t.
This isn’t trashing; it’s criticism. It’s making the obvious point: that the narrative of Second Life just isn’t being plumbed. That a lot of cheap and facile imagery derivative of Escape From New York type urban dystopias are peddled as original — but they are anything but.
Not everything has to be in 3-D; in a 3-D world where you *can* manipulate the space so much easier, and not have to weld metal and spend a fortunate to make sculptures and installations, why don’t more people make them? The closest anyone came to this in this show was with the wings. But wings?! Cliche.
I don’t go out of my way to somehow slam or hurt people. But I do have to say what I think.
LOL a reminder what your drama is about? A half life in which I wrote that I had “barely heard of you” but that this was “natural as there are now more Europeans than Americans in Second Life”. Actually, there are more Americans than any other nationality, though. Whatever that means!
LOL a reminder what your drama is about? ‘I like lists. But only when I’m in them. *grmbls* :p What’s the use of having a prok free blog, if she doesn’t know about it? Pfff. ;)’ That ànd a link to your site.
*offers Prokofy Neva first place on the complete ‘drama queen’ list*
Replay Transmission-
Veronique Kaminski
wrote a comment on September 4, 2007
@ Prokofy
Well, first of all: I read your article about Rezzable. And I even can understand many of your points…
I had the same kind of feelings about the Greenies sim, didnt comment it here though,but in an IM with somebody close to RaR/ the people behind Rezzable.
Neither am I 100% positive about the Cannery. (and Vint knows that..). I even totally agree with you when you point out the missed chance about the use of 3-D.
In fact for me the most interesting piece there is Kean Kelly’s Venus, where she makes an interesting use of pictures on transparent 3-D prims.. (you probally missed it, doing all your meticulous investigation..)
And before the accusations come: yes, KK is a friend of mine, but I am all but an unconditional fan of her work..
But that is not the issue here. I just want to react, a last time, on all the personal attacts, cheap critisism and blinker opinions that you are venting here..
(sorry to use that word.. hope you dont consider it as a fruit of your creativity that I am just copy/pasting here..)
What annoys me is the way you are posting comments here. Sitting on an ivory tower.. acting as if you, and only you, have possession of the thruth..
Its true, sometimes you write valuable and interesting articles on your blog.. but this doesnt grant you infallibility..
It doesnt give you the right to, under the pretext of journalism, start insulting everybody that doesnt concur..
What you are showing here has nothing to do with journalism, nor opinion making.
Journalism, be it mere reporting or be it editorial opinion making, is about investigation, gathering information.. and bringing your story or your arguments based upon the facts you collected.
And you know this. On your blog there are good examples of it..
But what you are doing here is something else..
While the purpose of this blog is for discussion,exchanging points of view.., you are merely using it for attacks.
You are just forwarding some fixed ideas, not facts, and calling everybody an idiot if they dont agree..
What Vint wanted to bring to the attention is the fact that she doesnt appear in your list.. And maybe an explanation why, although you claim to make a “topblog” list based on figures and blogs value, hers isnt included.
And sorry, but your argument that it doesnt have any impact, is mainly about fashion etc.. doesnt make sense.. and if you really had done your journalists homework, you would have noticed that..
We also know by now that you are from the USA, from NYC even..the place where it all happens, and happens first.. and that therefore you understand, and we dont, that e.g. all this “urban decay” is so passé.
An unfashionable fashion statement..
Because you see it every day.. you even live it.. breathe it.. whow.. impressing..
But I also know that there are some people around here who live in countries that used to be part of former Joegaslavia..
Guess they are speechless now, knowing that your wisdoms comes from being confronted with the harsh and cruel reality everyday..
As well as all these people, living in eastern european countries, who mistake fighting for SL rights with “mediocre musings”..
What do they know about fighting for freedom anyway.. I was you and your fellow countrymen who were the only defenders of it during the last 200 years.. coke an burgers in the hand..
Now, dont misunderstand me.. we ARE gratefull for what (especially your grandfathers) did for Europe.. But that was 60 years ago. You cant continue using that as an excuse for muting our criticism over what is happening nowadays..
What strikes me too, is that in the comment you wroten, and I reacted on, you speak about the “impact it has” , in order to measure the importance of Vints blog..
Now, I gave you some examples, but it still isnt clear to me what exactly you ment by impact..
You seem to be hinting at the capacity to “guide”. To the fact that some blogs have so much influence that ideas launched on it can provoke changes in SL…
Even make the Lindens change their mind..
So, if you consider yourself as an open minded critic whos mission it is to point out the clichés, mediocrity and the not thinking outside of the lines mentality in SL..,
why then do you just like that, without further discussion or opinioning, back up the Lindens in the “Nipplegate” case??
” “No bits,” I was told flatly. That’s how they see it. It’s their game. What can you do..” Your words Prokofy.. is that the voice of a critic?
Because it is ridiculous.. I know there is M and PG, and I know there is the statement about nudity..
but again, as stated by many before.. There is a difference between avie behavior, which I understand must be restricted sometimes, and a statue..
As a teenager, I was even obliged to look at statues and paintings of nudes, as a part of highschool art classes. Imagine…, at an age I would have been restricted to Teen Grid..!!!
And no, it didnt turn me into an european ageplaying sexual pervert, like you try to insinuate..
So, if it is accepted in RL, why not in SL, a world where one is supposed to be enjoying even a bigger kind of freedom?
Laying down rules like this one on nudity, without interpretation is a form of censorship.., the same goes for RL movies.. why is it called a film censorship board anyway??
Just taking the law as it is written, black on white, is a sign of conservatism.., its even reactionary.. and its a critics job to fight this.. maintain dynamism in a society..
But I dont see you doing that Prokofy.. with your comments it seems you prefer to limit yourself to ego-tripping..
Now, with all these post and comments, I think you made your point. Said all you possibly had to say.
But there isnt the slightest hint that you are really into a discussion with somebody.
You are just trying to enforce your opinion..biting back at everybody who has a deviating point of view..
You dont seem to accept, or even take into consideration, that other opinions also have their value, especially not when they arent fitting into your world..
So, if you really want to be taken seriously as a journalist, I think you better close this topic here.
Further one-way comments will only be a sign that your real and only agenda is : remaining in the spotlight..
Again, the reason for why Vint Falken was left out of this list of top blogs, which was merely an effort to make a discovery if what was perceived was true, was simple: I barely remembered who she was. It wouldn’t have occurred to me that a niche site like this had 100,000 traffic. So she made her point, making little defiant moues like “what, this isn’t something?!” and little fake *grins* — and I told her *why* she was left out and told her that since she was in the 100,000 category, I’d include her. End of story.
I guess you are amateurs; that explains the terrible drama and thin skin and hurt little feelings. Why do you accord to me the power of someone in an ivory tower? That’s your call, not mine.
I make critical blog commentary. Deal with it.
I don’t find flogging nudity to be a very interesting “dissent”. It’s the most mediocre thing in the universe. It’s not banned. It’s merely tagged. You have to put it in M, like a movie. To not do that and scream “censorship” is to be pouting and immature.
Vint’s blog is, again, as anyone can see, about fashion, and about her own builds. There might be something about HTML on a prim or something — but there is nothing critical, nothing dissenting (unless you count the knee-jerk reaction about the statue) — it just doesn’t seem to be related to politics and society. It’s not a mainstream news blog like the Second Life Herald or the Second Life Insider or SLNN that people go to for news and views of a broader sort. It turns out to have high traffic. Whoop-de-do. I said I’d include it. But my God, I’m merely someone *reporting on* rankings not *making them*. You would think I was *making them* for all the hooting and hollering you are doing.
Urban decay *is* passe. At least done — and overdone. It has to be pretty hip and jolting to be something new. Surely that’s obvious. And there’s nothing personally insulting in my statements; they are just *criticism*. Critical reporting. So there’s some Venus transparency. Venus???
I have looked at statues of nudes and paintings my whole life. So? They are rated M when they are full frontal nudity in media, like newspapers and movies. It doesn’t trouble me that the Lindens enforce ratings. I can think of a million other battles I’d rather fight with them.
Of course I’m trying to enforce my opinion. I’m not going to be conforming to the tribe, no. I have my opinion, I stick to it, and hell, yeah, I bite back, just like you do.
Once again, you fall for the way of tribal thinking, the fallacy that if someone asserts their own opinion forcefully, they are somehow trumping or delegitimizing your own. Again, I chalk this up to thin-skinnedness, amateur or youth status, lack of experience.
Pretty soon you’ll understand that all ink is good ink, that all discussion, even controversial, is a good thing for art trying to get noticed. And after all, it is these artists who want to be in the spotlight, I merely visited their spotlight and reported on it.
Veronique Kaminski
wrote a comment on September 4, 2007
This quote is memorable - you can use it to kill ALL of Prok’s griping on her own blog:
I asked the Lindens what guidelines they were going by with this incident at Burning Life. “No bits,” I was told flatly. That’s how they see it. It’s their game. What can you do.
So Prok, they favour their friends, they are not hard core freemarketeers like you, they have a vague ideology. It’s their game. What can you do.
This quote would actually go great under her latest post about secondlifegrid.net too. =D
Veronique Kaminski
wrote a comment on September 5, 2007
lol,..
I used the same quote in my reaction, and rubbed it in his face to show him that he isnt the tough critic he claims to be..
But honesty demands to acknowledge that sometimes, on his own blog, he does make a point..
You can be in favor, or against his opinion, but he brings up some issues that are worth thinking about..
However, its the almost spoiled-childish way of reaction that he demonstrated here, his way of turning to insults.. that really pissed me off..
Tekkie literalism — “foolish consistency that is the hob-goblin of little minds” — is the bane of Second Life. “It’s their game, what can you do” isn’t some sort of call to submit to the Linden jackboot. It is merely a sarcastic remark. I certainly have never submitted to the concept that “it’s their game” and “you can do nothing”. I wouldn’t call for radical concepts like their creation of a resident seat on their board for tier-payers if I thought nothing could be changed.
I just find this whole tits thing completely childish. M and PG aren’t just the Lindens’ concepts. They’re a concept in movies and literature and society at large. The sliders are different for different countries. But the Lindens don’t achieve anything by selectively enforcing their own guidelines. The first step in making them more accountable is to get them to abide by their own laws and not be selective. I fail to see what the big goddamn deal is, and why you cannot move the work to M. That isn’t being prudish, it’s just saying that there should be a space free of overt sexualization and enforced nudity — that space is called “PG”. Many residents ‘Live PG” and welcome this. Let them!
If a tenant put out a statue like this in a PG sim, I’d do exactly nothing. If some fanboy tattled on that resident and the Lindens told me to take it down, then I’d comply. Burning Life is a public space, not your own back yard in your own sim.
Can we please stop having the public commons forcibly invaded with sexualization at every turn?
I haven’t made any insults. I said the truth: that I barely remembered someone. I can’t lie. Meanwhile, that becomes cause for making a racist accusation that I am some yahoo American stuck in my parochial little world.
There are many more hobbles on the minds and eyes of you all, visible at 10 paces. It takes a lot to go against the grain.
Open Sim? SL Bloggers logo? Secondlifegrid.net? =d
This is supposed to be an answer about what is political?
But the bloggers logo is about art. And in fact, the idea of all bloggers having to have any sort of identifying logo they share is pretty awful stuff, I think.
Open Sim? But only the most superficial of points was written about it, and merely for “spontaneous me” to have “more creative space”. So, nu?
Secondlifegrid.net — and there is something original there?
Most of the blog is about fashion. From the moment we see its author, crouched like “I’m on a hunt” in the Duran Duran video and a 1,000 other male memes objectifying women on fashion shoots, in a scant outfit with the Distressed Urban theme, we get it. Yes, we are hit over the head with it. This. Is. Fashion.
Not again! Really, Prok, this last part of the convo was not ment to ‘wake’ you. I’ve moved past this. Already a few blogpost. You clearly like to discuss (or argue is a better word here) for the sake of it, well, I’d prefer that you would go and do that somewhere else *points at your own blog*.
I said before that my comment about your island was aimed at the the way you refuse to perceive SL from different perspectives, not on your RL island/continent.
I won’t even reply to your last comment anymore. If you prefer to keep starting fights, go ahead. I was talking to Veronique here, not to you. So, go blog about something, go critisize something, go think of some positive suggestions/solutions for all you dislike on the path SL is heading - I advice the latter, but you might find it a hard thing to do -, but stop filling up my dB with useless comments if you refuse to realy ‘listen’ to what others have to say. Askimet has failed me again, it seems. *grins*
Trollofy Neva considers things about nipples childish. Understandable. Anything related to sex is lost in the mists of time for her.
OpenSim is tekkie and probably irresponsible stuff. No surprise again. She hardly understands tekkie-talk so feels neglected.
As a generally boring person she is also not interested in art and fashion.
C’mon people, talk about politics so the old granny can rumble about FIC and other paranoias. Make her happy.
Prok, I visited the Vatican in January. They have a dress code that’s stricter than any other I have seen in SL or RL. They present themselves as absolutely devoid of any sexual thought. And yet even there, in that supreme temple of backwards religious tradition, they do not cover up the plethora of nude works of art that they have acquired over the centuries.
But OK, apparently you are with those who think of art as ’sexualization’. You, the Grand Mufti of Cairo, Ayatollah Khamenei, Iridium Linden. Bien étonnés de se trouver ensemble.
Um, a reminder that I’m not the one who has the standards of PG and M lol? I wouldn’t *care* if a nude statue or nude avatar was prancing around on my property? But this is the *Lindens’ judgement* in enforcement of *their rules*. I simply don’t feel it’s a cause I need to get excited about, given that the same statue can be shown perfectly well by moving it to M, at their request.
I’m hardly in the company of the Ayatollahs, but *you are* for printing such falsehoods and propagandistic exaggerations. And the Lindens aren’t either, given that they offer choices: M or PG.
You’re just being self-indulgent children. Waaa waaa show me tits when and where I want it or I will hold my breath and turn blue!
The idea that nude art is somehow not sexual is silly. Of course it is sexual. The idea that there is some higher erotic plain that is “art” yet still “erotic” is a fallacy. It remains erotic. It therefore belongs in PG, in the Lindens’ eyes, and the rest of society which comes up with things like the movie industry’s ratings.
The idea that we have to be *bludgeoned* with nudity — whether art, whether sanitized of eroticism as the Distressed Urban may imagine it to be, whether sexualized or de-sexualized is just as much a fundamentalism as the hysterical Christian fundamentalists who wanted to have a statute of a figure of justice with a partially nude breast removed from a court house. The issue is *coercion*.
What the Lindens try to do is to keep open a space free of coercion by having the “zoning” of M and PG.
Anyway, this conversation with the self-indulgent and the redundant kids has gotten boring. Um, play among yourselves!
@Vint: next time you go fishing, could you visit http://www.alicebot.org/ ? I’ve had a brief look at it and it seems to be pretty light on maintenance - this is a pretty big advantage in my book. I think you can even download one, but never tried…
Care to comment?
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50 Responses to “Second Life web resources for September 1st 2007 through September 2nd 2007”
hmmmm…. records….. I wasn’t lazy….
alexa rank
vintfalken.com 107.764
metaverse.acidzen.org 225.263
which make us pretty high on that list…
Similarly,
google hits
vint falken 68.500
dandellion Kimban 18.300
Should we raise our voices there? :D
I wouldn’t worry too much about Proks discovery of Alexa rankings. And I certainly wouldn’t agree with her analysis of why my name appears as often as it does…. Your2ndPlace.com has 498 pages at the time of this writing.
On top of that, Alexa rankings are easily gamed.
Google Page Rank works better, and Technorati gives a decent idea of how popular content on a site is over as period of time.
Um, I didn’t “just discover” Alexa, duh. I’ve been following it for years. And I’m not the first to compare SL sites on it.
Everybody knows about the problem with Alexa. But it’s good for comparison at least, whatever it’s issue. Technorati takes too long to wait for results, and Google page rank isn’t going to be any different when it comes to *comparison* of which sites have more visitors.
Gee, funny, I went out of my way to say that Europeans might have more hits now that there are more of them in the game, but it’s never enough, Vint has to keep venting.
BTW, Vent, I’d be interested to know: are you paid to do this blog? Is is in a sense a corporate blog for Rezzable? Or do you do it just for the love of self-expression?
And I said the next time I did a list, I’d include your blog since it’s up in the 100,000 rank, but maybe I need to work at having a Vint-free blog?
I was spot on about Nobody’s technique.
Technorati takes to long for results? Nah. Not as far as I know. Google page rank if indeed not a great comparison tool, as I guess most of us will be stuck somewhere between 4 and 7. But yes, they measure incoming links, and not visitors/readers. (If intestered, I did sum up some of the Second Life orientated blogs by pagerank a while ago.)
Alexa is the best we have for such things, I guess. But should be combined with technorati figures. (As only as to make up for blogs hosted on typepad, blogger, wp.com, … showing up better in Google and thus getting more search hits.)
And yes, I had to keep venting. Because you claim that those ‘personal blogs’, as you that easily dismiss them, have no news value at all and do not write about politics and social subjects. Look at Dandellion’s blog for instance, that has a nice variety of subjects covered in a in-depth and interesting way, mainly in the .. ow.. lookie… society and politics area. Second sex? Well, if SLescorts aren’t a a big part of our society’s fundamentals, then who are you kidding? Zoe Connoly? Gathering all the SL Bloggers and keeping us updated on all that happens in the steampunk scene. Etc.
And btw, Prook, no I am not payed by Rezzable to do this blog. My connection with it starts with friendship with RaR and ends with SLart at the Cannery. Yes, it’s for the love of self-expression. Opposed to you, I settle with only one blog where ‘me’ is the middle of our virtual world. =D
First work on having complete lists if you claim to do them, then worry about having a Vint-free blog. It’s not that urgent.
And Nobody’s technique to do what exactly? =d
PS. Prok, I think you have the most appealing long tows in the whole of SL. =d
Um, the subject under discussion is *your* personal blog. Could you point to your articles on politics and society instead of fashion and builds? kthx!
We weren’t talking about dandelion. Does he/she have a blog in the 100,000 range?
Most blogs are on typepad or wordpress, but the traffic isn’t because of these sites, because SL blogs are a niche and not featured.
My blog is personal, for that matter, but I don’t take a “dear diary” and “what I did today” approach, but have critical themes. And most of the blogs in my list were attempting to be media with a group of writers, not just a blog.
Technorati takes long if you are a new site. And it takes a while to build up the numbers.
Slescort is mainly sex. That’s a good chunk of society, but it’s still a niche blog. As is steampunk. The job of my list — which is a REPORT on which blogs are on top — isn’t to list every goddamn blog in SL, but to put up those with *the highest traffic*. The purpose of making such a list is not to be “definitive” but to see if people can add to it and top it.
Your main bitch seems to be “but I’m not on the list”. To which I said, oh, well if since you have 100,000 traffic, sure you should be on it, but I didn’t think of you because you mainly write on fashion and “what I built today” *shrugs*.
I don’t see why I need to “work on making a complete list”. I don’t see that you *matter* to the politics of SL. You have a fashion blog, but not even the most known one, eh? It’s one of many fashion blogs. If you do matter, demonstrate it. Traffic is gained by working for a company with high-traffic builds, even if they don’t pay for the blog. Mattering is demonstrated by having some impact on the world.
I hardly see why having one blog as my personal blog, and starting another newspaper with a group of writers makes me some sort of suspect chameleon, and makes you more authentic.
Nobody merely quotes large chunks from other people’s blogs *shrugs*.
Um, *make your own goddamn list*. I have no doubt it will still come out to be about the same, but merely with you on it. That’s what’s so retarded about your venting.
@ Prokofy : “..because you mainly write on fashion and “what I built today”…”
Ever did read something on this blog?
I mean : the content of the articles, not just scanning through the posts headings..??
What impact can this blog possebly have if it inspires people to the Lindens office hours, in order to advocate topics that are put forward here..???
Can it be considered as “impact” if the national RL press cites a post by Vint about the precense and traffic hanky panky of a RL political party in SL…
Maybe T-shirts are just considered fashion by you, but what if their purpose is to make a statement? Draw attention to the growing influence of censorship in SL… Just carriers for an idea??
If you really consider yourself a journalist dear Prokofy.. better first investigate before launching a blank opinion…
/me looks around wondering: “Is that yellow parrot making pointless noisa around?”
Damn Vint, you really had to bring a troll here?
Vero, Vint: It’s obvious that Prok is a very unhappy and vulnerable soul - as from her reply it is vividly seen how easily she falls into trivial rudeness. If she truly represents the “true journalism” this way - I feel sorry for the journalists…
I sincerely pity the people who try to show their importance this way.
Hehe, I’m not the one trying to “show my importance,” as Vint crossed the hemisphere to show up on *my* blog demanding a recognition for *her* importance and to be included in a list of blogs.
Uh, I didn’t just scan the post. I read them for an hour. Uh…where’s the censorhip? are you talking about the Burning Man statue? But there’s PG and M. You put it in M. It’s not censored. You are asked to put nudity in M. Is this all you can find for a cause in SL?!
I will hunt around for this post: “national RL press cites a post by Vint about the precense and traffic hanky panky of a RL political party in SL…” Sounds promising!
BTW, here are my reviews on your Rezzable builds.
http://slrecord.typepad.com/the_second_life_record/2007/09/urban-distress.html#more
Hey, I’m your worst nightmare.
I’m an American who cares.
Dandelion, I’m *so* glad you’re on troll watch. I expect you to *hasten* over to my blog and cluck over this kind of hateful comment, which is ignorant as it is incorrect:
“Of course Prok, I do understand that you can not, or not wish to look further then that small world you created for yourself within the virtual world that is Second Life. A world that revolves around Prok, and where you can easily leave out the Japanese news blogs, the European blogs, … these are of no importance. Because of course, all new creations, projects, etc. are coming from that cute little island that is called the USA.”
And this is…why? Because I didn’t include a niche blog in my top blogs list? And because…why? When it was brought to my attention I said I’d include it, and explained that i hadn’t because it was a…niche blog mainly about fashion? Hello? And that makes me an ugly American lol? Of course I’m the very person covering Japanese and European sims *shrugs*.
NO, I am not going there…. I was there for a while but ideas/typed_letters ratio was too low. Not theat there are no interesting ideas, just, they are lost in overtyping. I know there are trols that roams the internet, but you are probably the first one that trolls own blog.
And…. writing that article/review of Vint’s built after you already got in bad relationship with her…. well, you’d agree that is a bit duscusting.
Prok: could you please point out the “hateful” part in that post was about the island ? :-) I’d consider your “I barely recall who you are”, and “Remind me who Dedric Mauriac is again?” to be more offensive - but maybe it is just my broken english, and you just merely wanted to state the facts - well, for the next occurence, this way of stating the facts does look offensive to the others, FWIW.
(Again, me being a cynical arrogant tekkie is noone to advise you the experienced professional journalist on the ethical behaviour and the need to take the language diversity into account)
As for the censorship - I won’t argue on that. It’s a moot point to try to prove the white is white to a blind.
I personally find your reviews even interesting in those rare moments when you are able to be non-polarized. All the other times they indeed look very close to professional journalism. (your rudeness excluded - even though the bigger media these days tend to toy around with that as well, so I can not blame you).
Your latest review that you have kindly linked here is indeed the proof of your professionalism. :-)
Here’s what I wrote:
“I’m glad you have all that hittage, Vint. I barely recall who you are — but then, that’s the case now — there are way more Europeans than North Americans in Second Life, and it stands to reason that European sites will displace American sites (Vint is Belgian). Sorry, but I just don’t find your blog that interesting for my own purposes and tastes, so I don’t go to it and didn’t think to include it. But you must have a great following — congratulations! And next time since you’re in the 100,000 rank I’ll include it in the list.”
It’s honest; it’s biting because the truth hurts. Nothing offensive. Just true. Meanwhile, making up all this shit about me being in my little world in America, which is a world of worlds, is far more offensive and even racist. Take a look at yourself.
The Lindens didn’t censor something. Censoring would mean REMOVAL. They asked to move it into M as they have a distinction of PG and M. Like movies. Do you accuse movies that have an “R” rating as being “censorship”? Of course you don’t. That’s silly.
I didn’t “write a bad review of Vint’s build because I got in a bad relationship with her”. That’s silly SL-type drama-laden nonsense. I never bothered to write about Greenies before but I decided to go take a second look and see if I was wrong about this great artistic wonder of the Western World called Vint Falken who I had crassly, as an ugly American left out of my top blog list.
And I was…underwhelmed. I would have written exactly the same thing if I had never heard of Vint Falken — which was the case 2 weeks ago. I’m afraid I’ll never return to that blissful state now, but I think I’ve made some pretty astute comments on this build, and those adults interested in trying to make the builds better will likely take my suggestions on board.
Prok: Nothing to do with whether the truth hurts or not - but merely with the style of your first reply. Again, as a professional journalist you are, I am sure you know it much better than me (little irresponsible tekkie that is).
Again - i am not going to argue about your opion about censorship - it’s yours, I have mine - precisely because of this event I canceled the premium subscription, maybe there are others. And it’s your right to stay in your world and declare every opinion that is different from yours to be nonsense - it is somewhat logical and I fully respect that model - there’s place for more than just Euclidean geometry in this world.
About your reviews - the statement in my previous post still holds true, regardless of the explanations you bring in. I’ve seen more than this review, so can make my opinion. I don’t care much about improving your stats or preventing you from slowly driving yourself into wherever you seem to go.
Enough said. It’s getting boring.
About movies and censorship…. I don’t call censorship when somebody censor the nipples on the statue. I call that stupidity. And lack of culture and sense for history of own civilisation. European children are not affraid of statues with nipples. It is those criminals, vagabonds and religious freaks we had luck to chase away accross the ocean, who think that kids should not see nipples.
[…] friend I could ask for on the MG! No one’s friendlier than her! This one’s for your post that you wanted someone to make a list including you! […]
dandellion: I would not judge nations wholesale by the behaviour of the selected individuals, though indeed it seems to be an observable fact that the migrants from the original habitat do to some extent freeze the snapshot of the culture as it was at the point of migration - there’re plenty of examples of that in Europe as well.
There’re hopefully sensible people who are sober enough to realise that the imagination of today is the world of tomorrow. Even though the latest figures seem to indicate that the masses do not thoroughly enjoy what they see in the mirror :-)
Prok- quoting is a legitimate form of blogging. Rarely do I do so without commenting - and usually I comment at length, or do so well within a few lines (because, unlike you, I don’t feed my keyboard alphabet soup).:-)
Also, when I write a bad review on something - it isn’t considered to be a seal of approval. If you have issues with my popularity, well - I didn’t ask for it. You gave it to me with all those nasty posts you made about me last year. Your anger is a gift. :-)
You claim that you know the errors of Alexa, but you didn’t post that in your entry. In essence, anything that supports your opinions is considered a fact, and anything which you disagree with is not worth thinking about.
I’d expend more energy on you, but you bore me. You don’t think originally, and you are inflexible in your thinking. It is apparent you can’t hold 2 conflicting ideas in your mind at the same time - and that is completely fine. I don’t have a problem with that. Eventually you will go too far, someone will get tired of you - and you’ll be up to your ears in litigation. It could be anyone. You’ve called me a busybody, but you’re the gossip queen and the bully. You think you’re the first I’ve had to deal with? Hilarious.
Its somewhat pathetic, actually, but I have limited resources when it comes to pity - so I apologize for exempting you.
I am not judging nations by individuals! Nor I am judging individuals by their nationality!
There are Americans who were (and those that still are) brave, inventive and capable of building one of great countries in the history of our planet. But those are not afraid of nipples. And we are not talking about them here. We’re talking about slaves scared of the human body and its beauty. We are talking about those that will promote fascism in the name of their psychological problems.
dandellion: I know, I just wanted you to say that explicitly before you would get angrily accused of that by some :-) I have a lot of american friends too, who are very sensible, terribly smart and respectable.
But every beer has the foam - even though the foam is also a beer - and we all pay for it anyway, so I just take it as a fact of life - if the foam is too disgusting, one can blow it off the cup :)
As for the psychological problems - totally true. But the psychological problems need treatment, and I doubt they can be cured by shock therapy.
So I’d say why tease those who are weak… I’d say let’s leave them alone, or to a good doctor. They’ve already enough trouble to deal with themselves, let’s give them some peace they deserve in their conditions.
Chased them away, to freedom, where they wouldn’t *have* to have a nipple imposed on them, but they could put them in M or PG.
Hey, now, from which continent did all this ageplay stuff come from, eh? E-urope, if I’m not mistaken?
People who are out of arguments always begin using the mental illness tropes. It’s a condition all its own : )
I hardly think Americans are “afraid of nipples”. But the Lindens have to give meaning to the rules of M and PG. So they do. So move it to M, already, and stop fussing falsely about censorship.
Nobody’s blogs make extensive use of quoted material — they make up the entire blog. He patches on a sentence or two — and walla, he’s got his content. That doesn’t mean he isn’t capable of really long and turgid posts all his own. He is!
Here’s what I said in my blog about the problems and errors built into making a list of “who’s on top”:
“There are probably more effective ways to measure how influential some SL media is by doing sociological polls actually asking people what they read, or even polling advertisers and asking them where and why they place their ads, and how much they spend.”
And here’s what I explicitly said about Alexa, above the fold, Nobody neglected to read it:
“Alexa annoys people because they feel it’s not accurate, but when measuring SL media against each other, it probably is more or less telling the story.”
I dunno, how many more caveats can I make?
It’s Nobody who is unable to grasp the nuances in my blog, the “on the one hand…on the other hand” thinking that is in fact reflected, and has only a 2-D view of anything that isn’t himself, bloviating, or those under his thumb.
Again, anyone can go make a better list. Watch, it will hardly vary as to the positioning on the list, give or take a few.
“People who are out of arguments always begin using the mental illness tropes.”
No, it is just your case.
Wow. I’m bad because I attribute sources and quote. Dear me. Your real problem is that I don’t quote *you*. So transparent. :-)
And Prok - it isn’t that I don’t understand the nuances in your blog. Its just that I think that the nuances are petty and not worth the electrons that they are printed on. I could sift through any garbage dump and come up with the same nuances - in about the same concentration. It simply isn’t worth it to me.
I don’t have to defend my writing and style to the likes of you, Prokkypoo. You can simply not read what I write. Thats what I do with your stuff. ‘Prokofy Neva’ as the author on anything is pretty much the kiss of death in my reading - and thats a pity, because every now and then you do have something good. Its sort of like water - if it weren’t for all the sewage, your writing would be consumable. I just can’t get past the color and smell, and the few times I have tasted… blech. But you shouldn’t cater to me - you should write as you wish.
The problem is that you just can’t leave other people alone - you go out of your way to be the center of attention. That would be understandable if you were a child. When a child doesn’t get attention, tantrums are thrown. You post enemies lists, you toss out all sorts of vindictive things to attempt to garner attention - most people don’t write of you, yet you go out of your way to try to insult them. Why? Don’t answer that, we know.
Gosh, Nobody, if you’re going to argue with me, you shouldn’t ban me from your blog, that way you get the traffic on YOUR blog instead of this Vint’s blog. Isn’t that how the traffic maven should work it? Oh, I have an idea! Quote whole swathes from Vint’s blog, or mine, then cap it with one sentence, walla, you have a post!
I would hazard a guess that Somebody who needs to come on to a blog that they don’t normally post on just to counter me is the one with the need for a center of a attention. Just sayin’.
Thanks for granting me permission to write as I please — I’m so honoured, oh Lord of the Internet! Ok, back to your mediocre musings now, hon.
Prok, I think there are actually people that enjoy your non-presence on their blog and forums over a good alexa ranking. I’m beginning to understand why. As for quoting me, well, he’s free to do so, as long as he credits the quotes. The lovely CC license, you know?
As for the politics and society, I do blog on those. If you missed them, you indeed did not read the blog thoroughly. One hour? I think it justs makes you a slow reader. Gambling, SLescorts, age verification, gambling, censorship in listings, insecure passwords, SLelections, coca cola trademarks, … yep, it’s all there. So I think I’ve covered most of the ‘critical items’ too. Of course, it depends on what you call ‘critical’. :P Unlike you, I do not like to give me readers a pré-chewed opinion. I to just hope to offer them the material to make them think for themselves and discuss the matters at hand. It often makes me to think ‘wow, yeah, that’s an interesting point of view too’ when following up the comments. An amazing feeling, I feel sorry for you that you can not experience that.
By the island you’re stuck on, I did not refer to the physical USA. I meant you seem to have a preconceived idea of what Second Life is or is suppose to be but that image is a few years old (yeah, you’re old, we know) and you are not very willing to change that view. I’m sorry you feel invaded by the Europeans, but look at the bright side, most of them brought culture along. Besides, it are mainly our neighbours that emigrated because of believe issues, not the Belgians. =)
As for the nipple: no ‘nude’ on PG sims does not mean no nude statues. I can not walk the street nude in Belgium but I can think of at least 15 nude statues in crowded areas within 50 kms of where I live. The problem is they consider a statue of a naked woman offensive whereas it has been overall accepted as being art, be it statues to worship a goddess or Michelangelo’s work or Rodin’s up to modern art. And now suddenly, according to LL, it can not be ‘art’ anymore, and any reference to female sexuality in art is regarded as ‘broadly offensive’. Next thing we know, we’ll all be forced to wear burka’s when visiting PG sims, as yes, eyes can express sensuality too?
With the piece on the Rezzable builds - which are in no way ‘my builds’ - you did, in my oppinion, loose the last bit of credit you had as a ’serious journalist’. Trashing all Rezzable, just because you dislike me, is like invading a country because you can not keep your own airspace safe. I’m sorry you now felt the need to ‘harm’ other people, to dismiss their hard work and the effort they put in, just because you dislike me and you wanted to ‘hurt’ me. Well you did. Because I find it horrible, how you can say these things, out of pure spite. Just take a look at Nephie Eerie’s pictures for example: art is ‘criticising’ or ‘depicting’ current society in one way or another. It has and it will always be. Look at her pictures, and look at SL, and then again say it is not art. If someone for instance writes a beautiful poem or song, is it not art, because it is not 3D? You’re probably going to say ‘my bad review of all Rezzable stuff has nothing to do with you’ and ‘I would not have liked it anyway’. Well, your timing is more then suspicious, and if you were anything near a ‘professional journalist’ you would have let it rest for a week at least, to avoid ‘conflict of interests’ and to have at least a hint of ‘objective journalism’.
Prok, I think that this is mainly your problem: Ok, back to your mediocre musings now, hon.
Everyone who does not write long - we’ll leave the high quality question open - essays like you do is less? C’mon! I’m sure the guy picking up your garbage could not do so either. But where would you be without him pickup up your garbage? What would be left of Prok when she has no more enemies to list, no more builds, persons and initiatives to trash in your writings? No more people to look down upon? No more blogs to look down upon because they are ‘just personal blogs’? I wonder, if you take all the negativism away, is there still anything of Prok left?
I think it’s more interesting to write original thoughts, don’t you? It’s not about a “CC license”.
And your mission is accomplished — you pouted, you got noticed!
I asked the Lindens what guidelines they were going by with this incident at Burning Life. “No bits,” I was told flatly. That’s how they see it. It’s their game. What can you do. PG movies only show nudity briefly, or partially. This is a big permanent-standing statue. Can’t it be moved into M? What is the big friggin’ deal? Otherwise M and PG have no meaning, and the Lindens look like fools for non-enforcement.
I’m well aware of all the nude statues in the world. Gosh, we even have them in backward right-wing fundamentalist SUV-driving America!
But this is how the Lindens called it. No need to argue with me about it; argue with them. I just don’t see why it wasn’t then moved to M instead of screeching.
Burquas in PG? Don’t be ridiculous. People who REALLY are forced to wear burquas in RL know how spoiled and silly you are in a game-like environment pouting and tantruming because you can’t bare your boobies. Put them in M. PG is not for bits. That’s how the Lindens define it.
I didn’t trash all of Rezzable because “I don’t like you”. As I noted, I barely remember who you are? With your flogging of these builds, the notecards bombarding me, and the Twittering, I went to see them. I thought the Cannery derivative and uninteresting. Greenies was a bludgeon: “Look at us, we are cool builders with tongue in cheek!” I liked Toxic Garden because it was interactive and engaging, and told a story — and said so. These builds are made by other people besides you — or does the entire universe revolve around you?!
Sorry, but I really thought the art sucked, was derivative, facile, and — in 2-D, which is always a waste of SL, IMHO. I think this about most “art” in SL, which tends to be of the BDSM-Cross-Apocalypse-Urban Distressed school of copy-cat stuff without much interest. I’m certain I’m not alone in thinking this.
I don’t understand why I have to let something “rest”. It’s been flogged for weeks. I finally went to see it precisely because people made such a fuss — yourself included. Parts were good; parts were underwhelming. I don’t get why I’m supposed to say something is awesome when it isn’t.
This isn’t trashing; it’s criticism. It’s making the obvious point: that the narrative of Second Life just isn’t being plumbed. That a lot of cheap and facile imagery derivative of Escape From New York type urban dystopias are peddled as original — but they are anything but.
Not everything has to be in 3-D; in a 3-D world where you *can* manipulate the space so much easier, and not have to weld metal and spend a fortunate to make sculptures and installations, why don’t more people make them? The closest anyone came to this in this show was with the wings. But wings?! Cliche.
I don’t go out of my way to somehow slam or hurt people. But I do have to say what I think.
Can somebody just strangle stupid yellow parrot for me?
I actually find it amusing - escheresque things bring aesthetic pleasure in their irrationality.
Vint, re. the artists, and other sane individuals - I assume those who want will read this thread - so they won’t have any reasons to feel hurt :-)
LOL a reminder what your drama is about? A half life in which I wrote that I had “barely heard of you” but that this was “natural as there are now more Europeans than Americans in Second Life”. Actually, there are more Americans than any other nationality, though. Whatever that means!
A quick response to Prok.
Start Transmission–
*ROFLMAO, you’re demented. Get over yourself. The rest of us have.*
—End Transmission
LOL a reminder what your drama is about? ‘I like lists. But only when I’m in them. *grmbls* :p What’s the use of having a prok free blog, if she doesn’t know about it? Pfff. ;)’ That ànd a link to your site.
*offers Prokofy Neva first place on the complete ‘drama queen’ list*
Replay Transmission-
@ Prokofy
Well, first of all: I read your article about Rezzable. And I even can understand many of your points…
I had the same kind of feelings about the Greenies sim, didnt comment it here though,but in an IM with somebody close to RaR/ the people behind Rezzable.
Neither am I 100% positive about the Cannery. (and Vint knows that..). I even totally agree with you when you point out the missed chance about the use of 3-D.
In fact for me the most interesting piece there is Kean Kelly’s Venus, where she makes an interesting use of pictures on transparent 3-D prims.. (you probally missed it, doing all your meticulous investigation..)
And before the accusations come: yes, KK is a friend of mine, but I am all but an unconditional fan of her work..
But that is not the issue here. I just want to react, a last time, on all the personal attacts, cheap critisism and blinker opinions that you are venting here..
(sorry to use that word.. hope you dont consider it as a fruit of your creativity that I am just copy/pasting here..)
What annoys me is the way you are posting comments here. Sitting on an ivory tower.. acting as if you, and only you, have possession of the thruth..
Its true, sometimes you write valuable and interesting articles on your blog.. but this doesnt grant you infallibility..
It doesnt give you the right to, under the pretext of journalism, start insulting everybody that doesnt concur..
What you are showing here has nothing to do with journalism, nor opinion making.
Journalism, be it mere reporting or be it editorial opinion making, is about investigation, gathering information.. and bringing your story or your arguments based upon the facts you collected.
And you know this. On your blog there are good examples of it..
But what you are doing here is something else..
While the purpose of this blog is for discussion,exchanging points of view.., you are merely using it for attacks.
You are just forwarding some fixed ideas, not facts, and calling everybody an idiot if they dont agree..
What Vint wanted to bring to the attention is the fact that she doesnt appear in your list.. And maybe an explanation why, although you claim to make a “topblog” list based on figures and blogs value, hers isnt included.
And sorry, but your argument that it doesnt have any impact, is mainly about fashion etc.. doesnt make sense.. and if you really had done your journalists homework, you would have noticed that..
We also know by now that you are from the USA, from NYC even..the place where it all happens, and happens first.. and that therefore you understand, and we dont, that e.g. all this “urban decay” is so passé.
An unfashionable fashion statement..
Because you see it every day.. you even live it.. breathe it.. whow.. impressing..
But I also know that there are some people around here who live in countries that used to be part of former Joegaslavia..
Guess they are speechless now, knowing that your wisdoms comes from being confronted with the harsh and cruel reality everyday..
As well as all these people, living in eastern european countries, who mistake fighting for SL rights with “mediocre musings”..
What do they know about fighting for freedom anyway.. I was you and your fellow countrymen who were the only defenders of it during the last 200 years.. coke an burgers in the hand..
Now, dont misunderstand me.. we ARE gratefull for what (especially your grandfathers) did for Europe.. But that was 60 years ago. You cant continue using that as an excuse for muting our criticism over what is happening nowadays..
What strikes me too, is that in the comment you wroten, and I reacted on, you speak about the “impact it has” , in order to measure the importance of Vints blog..
Now, I gave you some examples, but it still isnt clear to me what exactly you ment by impact..
You seem to be hinting at the capacity to “guide”. To the fact that some blogs have so much influence that ideas launched on it can provoke changes in SL…
Even make the Lindens change their mind..
So, if you consider yourself as an open minded critic whos mission it is to point out the clichés, mediocrity and the not thinking outside of the lines mentality in SL..,
why then do you just like that, without further discussion or opinioning, back up the Lindens in the “Nipplegate” case??
” “No bits,” I was told flatly. That’s how they see it. It’s their game. What can you do..” Your words Prokofy.. is that the voice of a critic?
Because it is ridiculous.. I know there is M and PG, and I know there is the statement about nudity..
but again, as stated by many before.. There is a difference between avie behavior, which I understand must be restricted sometimes, and a statue..
As a teenager, I was even obliged to look at statues and paintings of nudes, as a part of highschool art classes. Imagine…, at an age I would have been restricted to Teen Grid..!!!
And no, it didnt turn me into an european ageplaying sexual pervert, like you try to insinuate..
So, if it is accepted in RL, why not in SL, a world where one is supposed to be enjoying even a bigger kind of freedom?
Laying down rules like this one on nudity, without interpretation is a form of censorship.., the same goes for RL movies.. why is it called a film censorship board anyway??
Just taking the law as it is written, black on white, is a sign of conservatism.., its even reactionary.. and its a critics job to fight this.. maintain dynamism in a society..
But I dont see you doing that Prokofy.. with your comments it seems you prefer to limit yourself to ego-tripping..
Now, with all these post and comments, I think you made your point. Said all you possibly had to say.
But there isnt the slightest hint that you are really into a discussion with somebody.
You are just trying to enforce your opinion..biting back at everybody who has a deviating point of view..
You dont seem to accept, or even take into consideration, that other opinions also have their value, especially not when they arent fitting into your world..
So, if you really want to be taken seriously as a journalist, I think you better close this topic here.
Further one-way comments will only be a sign that your real and only agenda is : remaining in the spotlight..
Again, the reason for why Vint Falken was left out of this list of top blogs, which was merely an effort to make a discovery if what was perceived was true, was simple: I barely remembered who she was. It wouldn’t have occurred to me that a niche site like this had 100,000 traffic. So she made her point, making little defiant moues like “what, this isn’t something?!” and little fake *grins* — and I told her *why* she was left out and told her that since she was in the 100,000 category, I’d include her. End of story.
I guess you are amateurs; that explains the terrible drama and thin skin and hurt little feelings. Why do you accord to me the power of someone in an ivory tower? That’s your call, not mine.
I make critical blog commentary. Deal with it.
I don’t find flogging nudity to be a very interesting “dissent”. It’s the most mediocre thing in the universe. It’s not banned. It’s merely tagged. You have to put it in M, like a movie. To not do that and scream “censorship” is to be pouting and immature.
Vint’s blog is, again, as anyone can see, about fashion, and about her own builds. There might be something about HTML on a prim or something — but there is nothing critical, nothing dissenting (unless you count the knee-jerk reaction about the statue) — it just doesn’t seem to be related to politics and society. It’s not a mainstream news blog like the Second Life Herald or the Second Life Insider or SLNN that people go to for news and views of a broader sort. It turns out to have high traffic. Whoop-de-do. I said I’d include it. But my God, I’m merely someone *reporting on* rankings not *making them*. You would think I was *making them* for all the hooting and hollering you are doing.
Urban decay *is* passe. At least done — and overdone. It has to be pretty hip and jolting to be something new. Surely that’s obvious. And there’s nothing personally insulting in my statements; they are just *criticism*. Critical reporting. So there’s some Venus transparency. Venus???
I have looked at statues of nudes and paintings my whole life. So? They are rated M when they are full frontal nudity in media, like newspapers and movies. It doesn’t trouble me that the Lindens enforce ratings. I can think of a million other battles I’d rather fight with them.
Of course I’m trying to enforce my opinion. I’m not going to be conforming to the tribe, no. I have my opinion, I stick to it, and hell, yeah, I bite back, just like you do.
Once again, you fall for the way of tribal thinking, the fallacy that if someone asserts their own opinion forcefully, they are somehow trumping or delegitimizing your own. Again, I chalk this up to thin-skinnedness, amateur or youth status, lack of experience.
Pretty soon you’ll understand that all ink is good ink, that all discussion, even controversial, is a good thing for art trying to get noticed. And after all, it is these artists who want to be in the spotlight, I merely visited their spotlight and reported on it.
Thank you for proving my point…
amateur ??
Sorry to say, but had to add my two cents.
This quote is memorable - you can use it to kill ALL of Prok’s griping on her own blog:
I asked the Lindens what guidelines they were going by with this incident at Burning Life. “No bits,” I was told flatly. That’s how they see it. It’s their game. What can you do.
So Prok, they favour their friends, they are not hard core freemarketeers like you, they have a vague ideology. It’s their game. What can you do.
This quote would actually go great under her latest post about secondlifegrid.net too. =D
lol,..
I used the same quote in my reaction, and rubbed it in his face to show him that he isnt the tough critic he claims to be..
But honesty demands to acknowledge that sometimes, on his own blog, he does make a point..
You can be in favor, or against his opinion, but he brings up some issues that are worth thinking about..
However, its the almost spoiled-childish way of reaction that he demonstrated here, his way of turning to insults.. that really pissed me off..
amen, ….fast forward…whats next??
Open Sim? SL Bloggers logo? Secondlifegrid.net? =d
Tekkie literalism — “foolish consistency that is the hob-goblin of little minds” — is the bane of Second Life. “It’s their game, what can you do” isn’t some sort of call to submit to the Linden jackboot. It is merely a sarcastic remark. I certainly have never submitted to the concept that “it’s their game” and “you can do nothing”. I wouldn’t call for radical concepts like their creation of a resident seat on their board for tier-payers if I thought nothing could be changed.
I just find this whole tits thing completely childish. M and PG aren’t just the Lindens’ concepts. They’re a concept in movies and literature and society at large. The sliders are different for different countries. But the Lindens don’t achieve anything by selectively enforcing their own guidelines. The first step in making them more accountable is to get them to abide by their own laws and not be selective. I fail to see what the big goddamn deal is, and why you cannot move the work to M. That isn’t being prudish, it’s just saying that there should be a space free of overt sexualization and enforced nudity — that space is called “PG”. Many residents ‘Live PG” and welcome this. Let them!
If a tenant put out a statue like this in a PG sim, I’d do exactly nothing. If some fanboy tattled on that resident and the Lindens told me to take it down, then I’d comply. Burning Life is a public space, not your own back yard in your own sim.
Can we please stop having the public commons forcibly invaded with sexualization at every turn?
I haven’t made any insults. I said the truth: that I barely remembered someone. I can’t lie. Meanwhile, that becomes cause for making a racist accusation that I am some yahoo American stuck in my parochial little world.
There are many more hobbles on the minds and eyes of you all, visible at 10 paces. It takes a lot to go against the grain.
Open Sim? SL Bloggers logo? Secondlifegrid.net? =d
This is supposed to be an answer about what is political?
But the bloggers logo is about art. And in fact, the idea of all bloggers having to have any sort of identifying logo they share is pretty awful stuff, I think.
Open Sim? But only the most superficial of points was written about it, and merely for “spontaneous me” to have “more creative space”. So, nu?
Secondlifegrid.net — and there is something original there?
Most of the blog is about fashion. From the moment we see its author, crouched like “I’m on a hunt” in the Duran Duran video and a 1,000 other male memes objectifying women on fashion shoots, in a scant outfit with the Distressed Urban theme, we get it. Yes, we are hit over the head with it. This. Is. Fashion.
Not again! Really, Prok, this last part of the convo was not ment to ‘wake’ you. I’ve moved past this. Already a few blogpost. You clearly like to discuss (or argue is a better word here) for the sake of it, well, I’d prefer that you would go and do that somewhere else *points at your own blog*.
I said before that my comment about your island was aimed at the the way you refuse to perceive SL from different perspectives, not on your RL island/continent.
I won’t even reply to your last comment anymore. If you prefer to keep starting fights, go ahead. I was talking to Veronique here, not to you. So, go blog about something, go critisize something, go think of some positive suggestions/solutions for all you dislike on the path SL is heading - I advice the latter, but you might find it a hard thing to do -, but stop filling up my dB with useless comments if you refuse to realy ‘listen’ to what others have to say. Askimet has failed me again, it seems. *grins*
Trollofy Neva considers things about nipples childish. Understandable. Anything related to sex is lost in the mists of time for her.
OpenSim is tekkie and probably irresponsible stuff. No surprise again. She hardly understands tekkie-talk so feels neglected.
As a generally boring person she is also not interested in art and fashion.
C’mon people, talk about politics so the old granny can rumble about FIC and other paranoias. Make her happy.
Prok, I visited the Vatican in January. They have a dress code that’s stricter than any other I have seen in SL or RL. They present themselves as absolutely devoid of any sexual thought. And yet even there, in that supreme temple of backwards religious tradition, they do not cover up the plethora of nude works of art that they have acquired over the centuries.
But OK, apparently you are with those who think of art as ’sexualization’. You, the Grand Mufti of Cairo, Ayatollah Khamenei, Iridium Linden. Bien étonnés de se trouver ensemble.
Um, a reminder that I’m not the one who has the standards of PG and M lol? I wouldn’t *care* if a nude statue or nude avatar was prancing around on my property? But this is the *Lindens’ judgement* in enforcement of *their rules*. I simply don’t feel it’s a cause I need to get excited about, given that the same statue can be shown perfectly well by moving it to M, at their request.
I’m hardly in the company of the Ayatollahs, but *you are* for printing such falsehoods and propagandistic exaggerations. And the Lindens aren’t either, given that they offer choices: M or PG.
You’re just being self-indulgent children. Waaa waaa show me tits when and where I want it or I will hold my breath and turn blue!
Can we please stop having the public commons forcibly invaded with sexualization at every turn?
It wasn’t me saying that, Prok. The conclusion that you view nude art as sexualization is therefore justified.
“I simply don’t feel it’s a cause I need to get excited about… ”
“You’re just being self-indulgent children.”
Well, why the hell are you hanging around us then?
The idea that nude art is somehow not sexual is silly. Of course it is sexual. The idea that there is some higher erotic plain that is “art” yet still “erotic” is a fallacy. It remains erotic. It therefore belongs in PG, in the Lindens’ eyes, and the rest of society which comes up with things like the movie industry’s ratings.
The idea that we have to be *bludgeoned* with nudity — whether art, whether sanitized of eroticism as the Distressed Urban may imagine it to be, whether sexualized or de-sexualized is just as much a fundamentalism as the hysterical Christian fundamentalists who wanted to have a statute of a figure of justice with a partially nude breast removed from a court house. The issue is *coercion*.
What the Lindens try to do is to keep open a space free of coercion by having the “zoning” of M and PG.
Anyway, this conversation with the self-indulgent and the redundant kids has gotten boring. Um, play among yourselves!
@Vint: next time you go fishing, could you visit http://www.alicebot.org/ ? I’ve had a brief look at it and it seems to be pretty light on maintenance - this is a pretty big advantage in my book. I think you can even download one, but never tried…
Care to comment?