WindLight Comparison Project
November 22, 2007 7:57 pm
Suspicion
I suspect WindLight behaves / looks seriously different depending on the graphics card / video card you use. Even when the WindLight settings are 100% the same.
How to proof this?
Comparison shots of the same locating taken with - fixed - noon, evening, midnight and dawn settings with different graphic cards.
Needed
- An object that makes sure that if an avatar stands on it, the object takes over camera controls so everybody shoots exactly the same scene. (I think I once saw Arahan Claveau use this?)
- XML settings for noon, evening, midnight and dawn.
- Residents willing to take those 4 shots and list their type of graphics card. You can upload them on Flickr or e-mail them to me. Let’s say we’ll shoot at 1600×1200px? And, guys and gals, no Photoshopping allowed! ;)
Who will help?
XML Files
Chinese volunteer for helping Vint with the XML WindLight files: Kailie Quinn (Katarina Malthus) (Vint can host them if needed?)
Fixed-view Object
Resident with coding capacities needed! (I found it a bit rude to appoint a Chinese Volunteer for this. :p) Probably found.
Guinea Pig Residents that will take the photographs
- Vint Falken - Radeon X600/X550 Series & GeForce 8600 GTS & whatever sits in the laptop. (Voluntary Volunteer)
- CodeBastard Redgrave (Chinese Volunteer)
- Bella March (Chinese Volunteer)
- Torley Linden (Chinese Volunteer)
- Shoshana Epsilon - GeForce 7950 GT nvidea (Chinese Volunteer)
- Veyron Supercharge - GeForce 7900GS (Chinese Volunteer)
- Alexander Lapointe - ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT and NVIDIA GeForce 6150SE nForce 430 w/ 825MB (Voluntary Volunteer)
- Otenth Padernborn - ATI Radeon X1600 (Voluntary Volunteer)
- Sered Woollahra - Ati Radeon x300 (Volunatry Volunteer)
- Kesseret - ATI Radeon x1650. 512mb RAM version (Voluntary Volunteer)
- Loki Popinjay ft. Mylena Aquitaine - Nvidia GeForce 6700XL with 128 Mb and/or NVIDIA GeForce NX8800GTX with 768 Mb (Voluntanry Volunteer)
- Faerie Hax - 7600GTX 256mb (Voluntary Volunteer)
- Dandellion Kimban - Radeon 9250 (Voluntary Volunteer)
- Marina McTeague - Radeon 9700 Pro. 8D (Voluntary Volunteer)
- FireFox Bancroft - Radeon HD 2900XT (Voluntary Volunteer)
- Nadine Nozaki - Various stuff (Voluntary Volunteer)
- Looker Lumet - NVIDIA GeForce 6610 XL with 128 MB (Voluntary Volunteer)
- Suzanne Graves - Quadro FX 2500M (512mb) (VV)
- RedDawn Bade - nVidia 8800 GTS (640mb) and nVidia 8600 mobile (240mb) (VV)
- Storm Thunders - Radeon x1950 (VV)
- Alexis Stapovic - if WindLight runs on the POS(?) (VV)
- Guardian Market - EVGA e-GeForce 8600 GTS (PCI-e, 256MB) (VV)
- Claudia Mantis - Asus EN8800GTX/768mb (VV)
- … ??!!!*
*Please, do apply! And mention your type of video card? So we don’t do ‘double’ work? And leave a valid email address behind in the comments, so I can notify when we have all things needed.
Gathering the SL WindLight photographs and arranging them so they can be compared
Vint Falken
Does this sound like a plan?
44 Responses to “WindLight Comparison Project”
Sure! I’d be glad to help. Just let me know when to do it. :)
Thanks Alexander, I’ll make sure to let everybody know! (That is if they leave a valid e-mail address behind with their comment.) Could you tell us your brand/make/type/whatever of graphics card? I’ll list those too.
I’d be glad to help. Here are my stats:
ATI Radeon X1600:
Chipset Model: ATY,RadeonX1600
Type: Display
Bus: PCIe
PCIe Lane Width: x16
VRAM (Total): 128 MB
Vendor: ATI (0×1002)
Device ID: 0×71c5
Revision ID: 0×0000
ROM Revision: 113-xxxxxx-139
EFI Driver Version: 01.00.139
Displays:
iMac:
Display Type: LCD
Resolution: 1680 x 1050
Depth: 32-bit Color
Built-In: Yes
Core Image: Hardware Accelerated
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Supported
Display Connector:
Status: No display connected
I’m in. ATI RADEON X300 here. Had to install new drivers to get atmosphere shaders to work at all, the whole world looked like a modern artists’ nightmare :-) See:
http://sered-sl.blogspot.com/2007/11/something-wrong.html
Specs for my imac:
ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT:
Chipset Model: ATI,RadeonHD2400
Type: Display
Bus: PCIe
PCIe Lane Width: x16
VRAM (Total): 128 MB
Vendor: ATI (0×1002)
Device ID: 0×94c8
Revision ID: 0×0000
ROM Revision: 113-B2250A-207
EFI Driver Version: 01.00.207
Displays:
Color LCD:
Display Type: LCD
Resolution: 1680 x 1050
Depth: 32-bit Color
Built-In: Yes
Core Image: Hardware Accelerated
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Supported
Display Connector:
Status: No display connected
Not sure what my PC has in it, but I’ll put that up too as soon as I can.
Awesome, tell us the results later! I wanna know what lowered me down from 30FPS to 10FPS since the last First Look beta! :-D
Smiley, the reflections? =d
Sered, added you to the volunteers list. And don’t worry about the modernist snapshots, some people use tons of photoshop filters until they achieve this results and then dare to call it (vector) art. (Although I must admit the blue does not go all to well with the yellow. ;)) Glad you are cured now! ;)
@Vint: Even with that disabled :-P
ATI Radeon x1650. 512mb RAM version. (too lazy to get full specs- heh but I can if needed.)
I have the latest drivers as of a couple months ago… if a specific catalyst is required let me know.
I’d be glad to help out. Got an Nvidia GeForce 6700XL with 128 Mb in mine and/or an NVIDIA GeForce NX8800GTX with 768 Mb (if she’ll let me near her computer :-)
Might be interesting to list the driver versions as well …. it can make a big difference even on the same type of card.
Okay, on my PC I’m running with a NVIDIA GeForce 6150SE nForce 430 w/ 825MB.
I’m happy to help too.
I have a 7600GTX 256mb video card on a Windows XP computer.
Oops sorry - my full name is Faerie Hax.
I was going to help, but someone beat me to the Radeon X1600 in my MacBook Pro. I’m interested in seeing the results though.
I’m game to be volunteered. My card is a 7900GS. There is one itty bitty problem with this whole test. I have a color calibration device, from GretagMacbeth, but I suspect most other people do not. Which is going to make each image appear differently on each person’s monitor by being uncalibrated.
Another thing that might throw bits off is driver version….
(Why do I have one - it’s for photography - it is actually important to have your monitor calibrated if you are going to do any modicum of serious work with a real image.)
My card definitely renders differently… that is radeon92590 doesn’t render reflections at all, but shines are nice… If you need that too, I can take pics :)
and yes that is 9250 up there,….
Quick answer to Veryon, I’ll complete the volunteer list ASAP (yey! thank you!):
V., let’s imagine we shoot your pretty pixelated butt, then calibration does not matter that much (in this case), because it’s a comparison. If the monitor’s calibration is ‘off’ from what you could consider standard, then all pictures viewed on that monitor will be the same amount of ‘off’. So comparison still stands?
I for instance know my monitor is set a bit to dark (losing shaded tones, having more details in the white keys), but else my eyes don’t last for two hours. :)
ps. Google does not have any kind of free - software - calibration tool? ;)
And Tiessa: yay! you’re still alive.
Dandellion: yay! you still read my blog. =d
I also volunteer to help!
I have a Radeon 9700 Pro. 8D
eerrrr… yes?
I will be glad to help, details of my video card will follow later.;)
I sure can help, laptop with some ATI stuff and a stationaryu with some nVidia stuff (also the stationary runs, Linux, XP and Vista with second life so you can see is the drivers affects the view.)
I have a Radeon HD 2900XT and am running under Vista I’d be glad to show what doesn’t work with Windlight under Vista.
I might even end up making a video showing Windlight behavior in this configuration.
NVIDIA GeForce 6610 XL with 128 MB total memory
Thank you all for this engagement. I’ll drop an email when all is set up! And as Nadine is right about the influence the driver’s have, I might ask about those later too. (But I can do that together with the photographs.)
Hey, I’d be happy to help too !
My card is a nvidia Quadro FX 2500M (512mb) on a Dell laptop running Windows XP
Great idea Vint!
/me wraps her arms around her new PC…
You’ve got the specs on my graph card in Loki’s post above…. I’ll happily contribute :-)
/me whispers …. my preciouuuuuussssssssssss
/me caresses PC
Hi Vint, I’d be happy to help.
I’ve got an nVidia 8800 GTS (640mb) in my home computer (Vista) with an nVidia 8600 mobile (240mb) in my MacBook Pro running OS X 10.4.
I’ve got a Radeon x1950 if you want another volunteer.
i can help you with the images if you want al song as my POS will even RUN windlight
also i be a coder:) what kind of coding do you need>?
Updated the list of Voluntary Volunteers.
Alexis, what’s a POS? And I really hope for you that it does run WindLight, you have no clue what you’re missing!! =)
As for the coding, it’s being worked on. Smth with a chair and fixed camera view. But thank you for the offer!
I’m in. I have a EVGA e-GeForce 8600 GTS (PCI-e, 256MB) (http://reviews.cnet.com/graphics-cards/evga-e-geforce-8600/4505-8902_7-32416597.html).
Drop me a landmark telling me where to take the pic and what settings, and I’ll email you the results!
I’m willing to help. My vidcard is an Asus EN8800GTX/768mb
Thanx for the email, Vint. Incidentally, this is the first time I’ve heard the term, “Chinese volunteer”. :)
I’ve forwarded this to the whole WindLight Team to ask for further insights. It occurs to me that in some cases, “differences” might be not by design and due to bugs, and in other cases, Preferences settings may be varied too — so I would at least suggest making sure those are consistent. Furthermore, there are a number of finer graphics settings which can be found in NVIDIA and ATI driver control panels (like antialiasing) which do make a visual difference…
I think it’s pretty cool you’re doing this initiative, and not to complicate things *too* much, but additional points to consider! =^_^=
You never heard of Chinese Volunteers?!! Maybe it’s a Flemish or Dutch terminology, I’m not sure… Chinese Volunteers are volunteers appointed by the government or whomever is running the place. Most frequent Chinese Volunteer jobs: playing ’secretary’ at a meeting, cleaning the toilets on a scouts camp, etc. =d
The preferences should be consistent by using the XML files for Windlight settings and buy advising graphic preferences settings. (If a certain card can not pull those, it’s inherent to the video card and thus relative to the comparison.)
You are right about the card’s own preferences though, I must admit I did not consider those. :( But I mainly want to have an idea how others ’see’ WindLight, so using their defaults will be ok? It’s somewhat like how our humans see the world. We can describe it, but can never be sure that what I call red is what you call red. For instance, I see detail in black where my mother just sees black. (I assume our brains calibrated the eyes differently? =)
I’ve got my fixed camera chair, so I’m ready to set up the XML files & the inworld location. I think. :p *goes to read her checklist again*
I have a low end pc, probably the lowest, hehe, and am running WindLight just fine with a PCI (not PCIe) graphics card, ATI x1550 with the following specs. I would love to give it a try.
Specs:
Second Life 1.18.5 (74061) Nov 19 2007 10:10:17 (Second Life WindLight)
You are at 283617.0, 260768.0, 44.3 in Tipaskan located at sim3924.agni.lindenlab.com (63.210.156.82:12035)
Second Life Server 1.18.5.73200
CPU: Intel Pentium 4 Northwood (2392 MHz)
Memory: 760 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: VisionTek Radeon X1550 Series x86/SSE2
OpenGL Version: 2.0.7058 WinXP Release
LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.12_0000000000)
Packets Lost: 44/53987 (0.1%)
Driver settings can make a big difference Vint. After installing a new driver for my graphics card a while ago the jagged edges I got were horrible untill I turned antialiasing on in the driver settings. Seems most games do that themselves … not so SL, it leaves it up to the card’s settings.
@Vint: Being a “Chinese volunteer” doesn’t sound too prestigious haha, but that’s okay, I’ll do my grunt work! ;) (I’m also going to look up the term and learn more…)
And, wanted to let you know WindLight Team gives our big smile to this and they’re eager to see how quickly + effectively it can happen. Resident-run collaboration excites us (and me personally) so much. I’ll of course gladly participate once things get rolling.
We had an internal meeting where we brought this WindLight Comparison Project up, and: minor variances across GPUs are to be affected due to all the many visual settings involved, but if there’s *significant* differences (I believe Steve Linden used the analogy of a “red” apple on one screen looking “blue” on another ;) ), then those are likely bugs which we need to fix… and hopefully these tests can help us uncover them.
On a related note, I’ve also started this:
Meta-Issue: WindLight: Subjective aesthetic issues
» http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3463
I’ll be watching the comments here! =)
@Torley: You have any clue on when the missing files in the windlight source will appear? Love to get that compiles and some useful UI patches so i can use it all the time, even when needing to chat and work with groups.
*goes to quickly check her drivers setting* *anti-aliasing on* *ow, so I guess where I am now is the best I’ll ever be with this graphics card*
Torley, eager to see how quickly + effectively it can happen. So am I. You guys have Lindens that could code an automated submission system for the photographs. I do not. I don’t even own a sweatshop to let others do it. *sobs*
As for the settings, yes, of course there will be minor differences, but I’m not hunting for bugs. I’m just ‘darned’ curious about how others see what I now think of as my world. PS. I know of blue eggs and blue ketchup? :D
*will watch the JIRA closely for updates*
Ow wait, it does not have an RSS feed?!!
Not sure if you are still looking for volunteers, but I could offer the following system, which runs the standard viewer pretty well. Still have to install the new windlight viewer, but it did work with the beta version they had a couple of months ago.
Pentium IV 2.66 GHz (768 MB RAM), nVidia GeForce FX 5200 with 128 MB RAM and latest drivers, Windows XP SP2
@Timothy: Don’t count on it — tests I did resulted in a performance drop from beta 1 and beta 2 :-S AKA: WindLight worked better before! X.X
Is anything happening with this?
I’d be happy to help too, if you’re still looking for more volunteers. I am currently on a laptop with a GeForce 8400M GS, with ForceWare driver version 101.28, and all the nVidia settings left at the defaults (or at least, I haven’t changed them anyway).
A bit confused about why you need XML files for noon, evening, etc though… Couldn’t we just use the defaults? Or would the files be for the WindLight graphics settings in preferences too?
On another note, everything got a lot more jagged for me too back when they implemented the rendering pipeline changes a while ago. No idea if it’s still that way now or not though, as I’m on a different computer and graphics card now anyway, and it was ages ago so I can’t remember what it looked like before :)
Care to comment?